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And this is the speech of yet another well-known military leader of Novorossiya, Alexey Mozgovoy, a commander of legendary brigade "Ghost" (Prizrak,) the one that a poster "from Ukraine" was so afraid of, (trying to assure us here that it was "destroyed," heh.)
Ethnically he is actually a Ukrainian, but considers himself Russian.
P.S. And this is his "Appeal to people" that Mozgovoy posted couple of days ago on "Odnoklassniki ru" ( a social well-known website in Russia.)
"There are too many of those who are not pleased and don't want to bring things to a logical conclusion.
Only money, portfolios and ranks are in their heads! So what the people of South-East of Ukraine were fighting for? Only for losing so many lives, for losing jobs and confidence in their future?
If we are fighting for the interests of people, who are but people should decide the outcome of this fight?
Who out of so-called members of the governments of DNR and LNR asked the opinion of the fighters, that lose their comrades on the battlefield, the opinion of their families, that lost their fathers sons and daughters in this fight for their right to live free and to chose their own path? I think that none of them. All this looks like farce, a play where the people of Novorossia are a crowd of extras.
There were already few stages in attempt to dump Novorossia ( including the dismissal of I.I. Strelkov.) Now I believe there is yet another attempt, with the help of negotiations to cease the resistance and to not allow to destroy the power of oligarchy in Ukraine. The fifth column is at work...The transition of power from oligarchy to people is a nightmare for the whole so-called "world community." It became clear for everyone long time ago already that people like Valtzmans ( Poroshenkos) Chubais and Rockefellers rule the world. Their dismissal from power equals death to them.
So what do we see now? The agreements. And with whom??? We see no one other but Kuchma at negotiations table. During the years of his government the money bags were only getting more, increasing their appetites. The corruption reached unprecedented levels. He should be tried and put to jail, not to sit at negotiations table. What will happen to a special status of Novorossiya, when the same killers for dollars will remain near-by? What guarantees can be discussed with people, who excluded the word "truth" from their vocabulary?
Only Kiev's capitulation can resolve today's situation. Only separation of business from power can give possibility of creation of the state with human face. And only the court conviction for all these in power, all this so-called "elite of the society" can bring back to people the feeling of dignity. Otherwise all is in vain.. the slogans and the sacrifice.
Or do we really want to remain the puppets in the hands of the smart dealers? I am not interested in such prospects. We didn't take the arms only to stop half-way.
Fear has always been there and it will be there; now many fear the approaching winter... But it's the lowly fear. What I fear more is to remain the slave - to remain an animal in the hands of polished feudals.
I'm going to the very end, to the ultimate goal. To complete and indisputable victory, to free and proud Slavic world)))
Brigade commander Mozgovoy."
As I've said long time ago - the DNR people and Putin are not one and the same thing.
And Russians are watching closely the unfolding drama.
He does come off calm and measured in his remarks. One thing I'd note is I think his 'government by the people' (the reason for his fighting) while admirable can be a difficult goal to achieve. If 'only Kiev's capitualtation can resolve today's situation' then I'd suggest he is not realistic in his quest for the status of Novorossia. Why? Because his remark fails to accept that it takes two to tango. With the way Putin has managed the conflict there is will be absolutely NO solution at all if Brigade Cmdr Mozgovoy persists in viewing the conflict with one 'bad' eye. From the looks of it Putin will never countenance a free and sovereign Ukraine untethered from Russian control. Mozgovoy has to be shrewd enough to know that.
Looks like there is a cease fire, but from what I have read so far, seems this cease fire and peace plan has nothing for the DNR/LNR (Donbas) in it; Ukraine insists for peace that borders with Russia be restored and the "unlawful" bandits lay down their arms totally. I did not see anywhere if Crimea was in this plan or implied.
While Ukraine, rightfully so, is requesting what it is requesting, in practical terms, this is setting up the area for an eternal conflict, I do not think anyone wants another Gaza, Ossetia, etc, where two sides do not have the means for total victory, yet are too stubborn to negotiate and end to the situation.
Setting up an eternal situation will destroy the economies of Donbas and Ukraine, but more so with Ukraine. While Donbas will receive low to no interest loans and subsidized energy from Russia, and Donbas's economy already relied on Russian trade before, so will resume; Ukriane on the other hand will not have access to such things. The West does not offer such favorable loans and subsidies, the West will not be a large enough trade partner for Ukraine compared to what Russia was, and politically, the West is at the mercy of the voters when giving away large sums of dollars to Ukraine unlike Russia is.
I read that for this year and next year, Ukraine's economy at the best case scenario is suppose to drop 21%, with inflation running at 40%; this is not sustainable at all. Ukrainians are already feeling the brunt of this as job loss and loss of purchasing power is impacting them heavily, and the likelihood of another IMF bailout is high, and the IMF already had to make a few exceptions for its current loan for Ukraine to even operate.
And if Ukraine thinks they made good headway with the people of Donbas, they are crazy. If Ukraine had any leverage with the Donbas citizens, they lost most of it with their random shelling of the area, and employing the non-gov "volunteer" battalions who operated without any regard to the citizens there or Kiev's wishes, basically Kiev gave these volunteers the green light to do what ever they wanted, well, all it created was hostility towards Kiev in the region, and reinforced the "fascist" belief regarding Kiev. The Azov battalion is just a great example of this.
And this is the speech of yet another well-known military leader of Novorossiya, Alexey Mozgovoy, a commander of legendary brigade "Ghost" (Prizrak,) the one that a poster "from Ukraine" was so afraid of, (trying to assure us here that it was "destroyed," heh.)
Ethnically he is actually a Ukrainian, but considers himself Russian.
Erasure. He makes me nervous too. He's talking about making nothing less than a military dictatorship. That can be very bad, politicians are bad enough but when you have soldiers running a country it's rarely a good thing for the populace.
I agree with him wholeheartedly about the current crop of filth and what's been there for the 2+ decades but no one is going to tell me is a soldier is going to do any better.
Erasure. He makes me nervous too. He's talking about making nothing less than a military dictatorship. That can be very bad, politicians are bad enough but when you have soldiers running a country it's rarely a good thing for the populace.
I agree with him wholeheartedly about the current crop of filth and what's been there for the 2+ decades but no one is going to tell me is a soldier is going to do any better.
Soldiers are a different breed.
Scrat, I'll try to explain to you in the same manner as I've explained to Viribusinitus, why what seems unacceptable in one culture, plays out differently in the other, and why such type as Alexey Mozgovoy would come across as worrisome in the West, but not in Ukraine/Russia.
You see, in the West the upper class/the rich have figured out already long time ago how to "keep the vine yard" speaking by biblical language - i.e. how much they should keep for themselves and how much they have to "spread around" to keep the grapevines growing.
But not so in Ukraine/Russia. Not only they didn't figure it out over there in the 19th century ( which led to the 1917 revolution,) but given a chance yet again, they don't know when to stop, being as vile, greedy and obnoxious as ever. I took note of this story BEFORE Maidan; since I was familiar with situation in Russia in this respect, not Ukraine, but just few words gave me a good understanding of a picture in a second.
So it's a frigging locust, and it makes people like Mozgovoy militant, because they understand that you can deal with the locust only in the most drastic manner. Take a note - he was not an officer by trade - rather a construction worker and musician, so he saw what was going on around him BEFORE he became a DNR fighter. And now he doesn't feel like stopping after his military success, apparently.
I was already aware ( after listening to Oleg Tzarev) that at least some of the DNR people were of "old school" - rather "left-leaning" people, so I could foresee the internal conflict between them and Putin. This speech of Mozgovoy only proved my earlier perception. So we can only wait and see at this point what's developing there, I guess.
Yesterday I pulled up a National Geographic piece focusing on Russia's 'Broken Empire' as well as the status of Ukraine in light of it. A comment from a Russian officer who signed loyalty oaths to Ukraine:
' it's complicated. I had a motherland on one scale, and that scale has diminished. So I decided this is my home. So I've served ten years in Ukraine. My family is here. He goes on to say 'we don't regard our brothers as foes'.
The writer of the piece concludes that the commander's thoughts raise a question and goes on:
'Russia is Ukraine's most worrisome neighbor. To some Russian nationalists Ukraine IS Russia. Would the Russian officers now serving Ukraine really fight for it, particularly against the motherland? Let's hope not'.
I'm sure the current crises put a few of those in the Russian military now into some increasingly tough decisions. Would be interesting to see how sides were picked.
In any case, the entire piece was enveloped in a look that was hazy at the least when it came to Ukraine's perilous relationship with her neighbor. Just for reference it was written in March of 1993.
So for 20 years now the kettle seemed to be coming to the boil. We've got a supposed ceasefire now.
If history is a guide perhaps another kettle has been 'put on the boil'. And certainly nothing can be certain in the two countries' relationship.
Boxus, talking about what Ukraine was like only couple of years ago -...
I just came across this video that I've posted here less than a year ago I think -
"Why don't I write a song about love...
But for some strange reason the string is busted,
And the pen is broken - so forgive me, may be next time,
but now - now it's time to go to sleep."
(This song happened to be my favorite entry in competition.)
Yep, it's Ukraine just last October. Who could have thought back then...
"Urgent!
Having used the announced cease-fire, the column of Ukrainian armored vehicles entered Telmanovo in front of the DNR fighters, without a single shot. The DNR commandment considers these actions as not just a violation of a ceasefire, bit its cancellation.
Today Igor Bezler made an announcement regarding the activities of the Ukrainian Army;
32 imported tanks came into Debalzovo, 15 Shilkas entered the tank unit of Artemievsk, 7 tactical missile complexes Tochka-U, 6 Grads plus 1 BM-30 Smerch accompanied by 13 tanks, as well imported. They are all located in the section of of Slavyansk-Kramatorsk ( accompanied by 13 imported tanks.)
From Mironovka onto Debalzovo direction there is column of all kinds of armored vehicles, 3-4 kilometers long.
The military operations on behalf of the criminal government have been resumed. There is no turning back now, we have a long road to Kiev.
Some sources are reporting that the headquarters of the self-proclaimed republics consider cease-fire to be cancelled and they are resuming the military operations."
Not sure what's going on there...
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