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Agree with an assertion that an analyst made about it..' a very vanilla account of a very tragic event'.
And I'd add a criminal event. At this point it's noted that nobody nowhere knows who did it. It's not too promising as to the prosecution of it when we hear that it's possible 'we won't know who definitively pressed the button'. Something suggests that the Dutch are caught between a rock and a hard place on this. We will see how they fare when it comes to noting responsibility of the downing
of a commercial airliner with non-combatants in the war.
According to international law the country the plane is flying over is responsible for the aircraft as it is in the custody of that country. Ukraine may be liable for that reason. I highly doubt they shot it down even though some evidence recently came out their BUK systems were capable of hitting it and in the Izyum Slavyansk area.
The rebels had a BUK, the crew thought it was a Ukrainian IL-76 and took the shot. A sad mistake but the US and Kiev are ultimately also to blame for starting this whole thing.
Pretty good analyses of the situation.
At least for now.
Tough decision ahead on status of eastern Ukraine | Europe | DW.DE | 09.09.2014
Will the E.U want to do anything with Ukraine without Donbass/Eastern Ukraine?
That's a good question.
I don't know. Without the industrial potential of the east the Ukraine is simply a basket case economically but there is potential with gas and agriculture in the west. Problem is you have to bring up the living standards of the country (grow the vine like you said Erasure) in order to avoid it becoming just another colony which in the long run is not good for anyone. I don't think the Ukrainians are a stupid people either, that means there will be a lot of discontent and therefore political strife which investors loathe to get involved in.
I don't think this is over yet. Russias hands off because of fear of provoking/angering the west will amount to nothing. Nothing Russia could do as an intact nation will avoid conflicts of interest with the west because the west has an interest in conflict. There is unrest in the country regardless of the terror and diversionary tactics being used but sadly I think the Ukrainian people outside of Donbass are pretty well apathetic, beat down and brainwashed.
The future looks bleak for Ukrainians ever being better off in the future.
Will the E.U want to do anything with Ukraine without Donbass/Eastern Ukraine?
That's a good question.
Donbass is about 1/3 of Ukraine's economy, and is a feeder for the other 2/3's of it; basically Ukraine without Donbass is a sunk economic ship, forever to be dependent on handouts, unless Kiev concedes to consessions with Donbass which invites Donbass's economy back in to support Ukraine. Donbass does not need Ukraine at all, but Ukraine does need Donbass.
Geopolitically - it was a disaster for the West, obtaining a dirt poor country is hardly advantageous to the West, even more so with the fact the sanctions are hitting the EU and Russia, which will have many in the EU questioning the costs of obtaining even more poor people into an already burdened economic zone. Donbass and Crimea was the golden goose for the West, they do not care much about the economic poor other areas of Ukraine (except Dnepropetrovsk of course).
Petro is starting to concede, as predicted, he cannot take Donbass, he knows this, he is looking for an exit strategy that will do a few things;
- Keep his political career together is the first priority.
- Still maintain some kind of control over Donbass, mainly taking economic advantage of Donbass, one of the pillars that started this whole thing (Donbass taxes leaving Donbass to support others is an issue).
- Keep his pride, but all the while shaking hands with Russia to assist with Ukraine's survival.
Did I mention his political career? Oh yes, I did, number one priority. He has the entire Ukrainian media under his control, and it is obvious what that one is like, yet there is deep resentment by many people, including other politicians, regarding his actions, whether they regard his actions as too tame or extreme, Petro does have political enemies, and his top priority will be his political career, not Ukraine.
I don't know. Without the industrial potential of the east the Ukraine is simply a basket case economically but there is potential with gas and agriculture in the west. Problem is you have to bring up the living standards of the country (grow the vine like you said Erasure) in order to avoid it becoming just another colony which in the long run is not good for anyone. I don't think the Ukrainians are a stupid people either, that means there will be a lot of discontent and therefore political strife which investors loathe to get involved in.
It is even worse; besides actually being the number one economic area of Ukraine, it is an economic feeder for every other area in Ukraine. So Ukraine's economy will drop off even more if Donbass is somehow not supporting any aspect of Ukraine's economy.
Donbass does not need Ukraine at all, Donbass's taxes have been flowing out of the area for years, with little in return, hence one of the pillars for resentment (and gun powder for a spark, which happened when the president they voted for got ousted).
Ukrainians may not be stupid, but the information many of them received is very controlled, this is something the West harps on Russia about, but Russia's media controls are tame compared to what Ukraine does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335
I don't think this is over yet. Russias hands off because of fear of provoking/angering the west will amount to nothing. Nothing Russia could do as an intact nation will avoid conflicts of interest with the west because the west has an interest in conflict. There is unrest in the country regardless of the terror and diversionary tactics being used but sadly I think the Ukrainian people outside of Donbass are pretty well apathetic, beat down and brainwashed.
The future looks bleak for Ukrainians ever being better off in the future.
It is not over yet, Petro will continue to fight for every little thing he can get, and conceded little by little, the guy has that mafia mentality and too much pride. He thinks of himself over Ukraine.
I doubt Russia cares much about provoking the West, Russia pretty much did what it wanted to, and Putin has huge support from the population as well. Ukrainians are very apathetic, but the majority are in most conflicts, so this is nothing new nor surprising.
Petro also needs to think about keeping the rest of the country together.
ukraine's better without russia - russia is no 1 as the most evil country in history.
You really have absolutely nothing to add to the conversation, do you?
Do you even know anything about history? Do you just parrot BS you hear somewhere? Think it is "cool" what you state? Trolling?
While this is a forum and do what you like, it would be nice if the conversation stayed between the adults, without the random childish antics like you displayed.
I doubt Russia cares much about provoking the West, Russia pretty much did
what it wanted to, and Putin has huge support from the population as well.
Ukrainians are very apathetic, but the majority are in most conflicts, so this
is nothing new nor surprising.
The other day I managed to read a bit where a number of Armenian and Azerbaijani soldiers were killed in fighting near their border. Russia appears to be linked more toward the Armenians and is very involved on how the two countries manage their arguably tenuous relationship through the past decade.
It is interesting that more and more Russia is tightening the grip on the South Caucasus especially with more of it troops deployed in the region because of the conflict between the two countries. Question are being asked along the lines is it another Russian move for a possible land grab? If it happens, Putin will be diminished once again in the eyes of Merkel even if it's in not so 'trendy' Nagorno-Karabakh.
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