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Old 11-22-2015, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,927 posts, read 59,966,647 times
Reputation: 98359

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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Those qualities would be money in those cases. Looks do not matter if you are loaded, as money is the most important factor in dating, especially for men. If you project confidence, have a good career or other source of cash then your going to do well. It does not matter if you are fat, old, ugly or even if you are a total jerk. Money trumps anything.
This has already been addressed here, but I'll say it again. They were ugly before they were rich OR famous.

They overcame it.
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Old 11-22-2015, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,927 posts, read 59,966,647 times
Reputation: 98359
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
It sounds like you may be letting other people (mean people at that) help you decide your own self worth.
I hope you will pay attention to this, OP.

This ^^ is called a "reflected sense of self."

You don't want a reflected sense of self. That is like saying, "I am who I am in YOUR eyes. I need your approval in order to feel good about myself."

You want a solid sense of self, which means you know who you are regardless of what is going on around you, regardless of what others may say to or about you.

I posted this in another thread yesterday for a guy who was having a similar crisis of identity like you are. It seemed to help him. Though it appears to be an article about sexless marriages, don't let that throw you. It absolutely applies to most people who cannot seem to make a connection based on their perceived idea of their own worth.

Bowen Theory, The Differentiation Of Self And David Schnarch : I Live In a Sexless Marriage Story & Experience

This link also has a good explanation of it.

**We all start out dependent on a reflected sense of self
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Old 11-22-2015, 02:12 PM
 
Location: USA
7,776 posts, read 12,446,745 times
Reputation: 11812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomguy18 View Post
Does it work for you?
Yes.
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Old 11-22-2015, 04:33 PM
 
710 posts, read 584,979 times
Reputation: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life View Post
I hope you will pay attention to this, OP.

This ^^ is called a "reflected sense of self."

You don't want a reflected sense of self. That is like saying, "I am who I am in YOUR eyes. I need your approval in order to feel good about myself."

You want a solid sense of self, which means you know who you are regardless of what is going on around you, regardless of what others may say to or about you.

I posted this in another thread yesterday for a guy who was having a similar crisis of identity like you are. It seemed to help him. Though it appears to be an article about sexless marriages, don't let that throw you. It absolutely applies to most people who cannot seem to make a connection based on their perceived idea of their own worth.

Bowen Theory, The Differentiation Of Self And David Schnarch : I Live In a Sexless Marriage Story & Experience

This link also has a good explanation of it.

**We all start out dependent on a reflected sense of self
I read both articles and they were interesting. It's true, I shouldn't be seeing myself in through the eyes of others. Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who cares about what others think and I'm also self-conscious. I don't think I started that way, the bullying set me on that path. Prior to being bullied and harassed, I was very social at school and I was happy too. I used to get in trouble for talking so much sometimes. Anyway, I went through years of this stuff, even when I wasn't bullied at school, sometimes I would face verbal abuse at home (I'm not trying to throw my mom under the bus because she's a great mother, but she made some mistakes) and sometimes I would get called hurtful things at home as well. After a while, I just started believing this stuff and I found no reason to be confident in myself. I'm going to stop focusing so much on how I look and start looking at other things. I have accomplished some things in life. I'm a high school graduate (I know it's not much, but some people have never done that), I have never been to jail, I have never done drugs or anything like that, etc.. so I do have some stuff to be proud of. I actually got a nice haircut earlier and it sort of made me feel a little more confident, so that's a positive.
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Old 11-22-2015, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,927 posts, read 59,966,647 times
Reputation: 98359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomguy18 View Post
I read both articles and they were interesting. It's true, I shouldn't be seeing myself in through the eyes of others. Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who cares about what others think and I'm also self-conscious. I don't think I started that way, the bullying set me on that path. Prior to being bullied and harassed, I was very social at school and I was happy too. I used to get in trouble for talking so much sometimes. Anyway, I went through years of this stuff, even when I wasn't bullied at school, sometimes I would face verbal abuse at home (I'm not trying to throw my mom under the bus because she's a great mother, but she made some mistakes) and sometimes I would get called hurtful things at home as well. After a while, I just started believing this stuff and I found no reason to be confident in myself. I'm going to stop focusing so much on how I look and start looking at other things. I have accomplished some things in life. I'm a high school graduate (I know it's not much, but some people have never done that), I have never been to jail, I have never done drugs or anything like that, etc.. so I do have some stuff to be proud of. I actually got a nice haircut earlier and it sort of made me feel a little more confident, so that's a positive.
This is how it happens. We don't all get the ideal childhood we might like, and sometimes you have to help yourself navigate your way out of that kind of mess. Sort of like parenting yourself.

Keep up the progress.

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Old 11-22-2015, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
780 posts, read 1,344,464 times
Reputation: 609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomguy18 View Post
I feel like I will never be able to have a healthy sense of self-esteem or confidence. For most of my life I've been reminded that I'm ugly and not attractive. I'm 18 and back when I was in elementary school, I was bullied pretty harshly because of how I looked. Boys and girls alike used to make fun of me and call me ugly. I have pretty much internalized it now. It's easy to say that they were lying or to not believe it, but I didn't see any other kids getting it as bad as me. I can assume that the only reason that they'd make fun of me and call me ugly is because it really is true. The people who actually had good looks never got made fun of, and I can assume that if I had good looks, I wouldn't have gotten made fun of either. It makes me feel bad when I see attractive people because I know they are constantly reminded of how good they look and they probably know it, but I'm the complete opposite and it's not like it's something that I can control, I was literally born this way.
It could be something that you might just "grow" out of too. Here is a case in point of what happened to me:

I too, was heavily bullied when I was in school--from around 4th grade all the way till I graduated in '89. I came from a very low-income family where my folks divorced when I was 7 and my mom was left raising 3 kids on about $10k/yr, so my clothes were not the best of shape and I had to wear what was referred to then as "flood water" pants to school, I had a strong east-coast accent ( and living in a conservative place like WY at the time ) my class mates would make fun of me for that, because I had an annoying callic in the front of my head, a huge overbite with buck teeth, and very thick-rimmed plastic framed glasses. I was a geek or nerd to the tee before becoming a nerd became "cool".

Except for the "flood water pants", and thick-rimmed plastic framed glasses, I still to this day, have these what I'll call "attributes" now.

Classmates squirted ketchup into my locker ( while it was closed ) onto my belongings twice that I can recall, did what they could to trip me walking down the hall to classes, etc and other things that made especially middle and high school literally hell. It got so bad, I almost dropped out in the 11th grade; except my dream then was to join the USAF and I had to have that diploma to get in.

I seemed to develop a little late; as I got my own personality when I was in my 20's and though I was a loner growing up, and still am a bit to this day, I was forced to work with others; hence I think I grew into a personality.

Anyway, by the time I was around 30, I didn't become selfish, but I learned to not care as much what others thought of me. I like being different, and actually have told others "if you don't like or accept me for who I am, that's your damn problem. The world would be a boring place if we were all the same."

I have learned from a few of the former classmates I have had contact with, that many of my classmates ended up in jail, or homeless, or in worse cases, dead--through a mistake made on their part. I'm grateful I haven't had the same circumstance in life, which means I did something right, and they did something wrong. I like to think that karma came back and bit them in the ass for how the treated me and I'm sure others that I didn't know at the time.

I'm now 45 yrs old and feel even more strongly about this. IMO, I think you should just be yourself and if others can't accept you for who you are, that is their damn problem. I think as people age, their self-confidence can adjust to surroundings and they find ways to help rebuild it. You might be the only one to think you're ugly, and perhaps people made fun of you because they're jealous--you might not see it now, but as you get older, you will.

As long as you lead a life on the straight, narrow path, you will come out ahead of those that made fun of you.

Anyway, just my 2 cents on the matter...
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Old 11-22-2015, 05:56 PM
 
1,496 posts, read 2,238,724 times
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Look at Gene Simmons---ugly as sin, and he's made love to 4000+ females & groupies.

Or Lemmy from Motorhead.
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Old 11-22-2015, 06:27 PM
 
Location: in my mind
5,333 posts, read 8,548,159 times
Reputation: 11140
If the root of these issues is painful/humiliating experiences from childhood, you might look into getting some EMDR therapy. The best way I can describe how EMDR works is that you will still have your memories, but there won't be any painful emotions associated with them anymore.

You can read about EMDR and find a therapist in your area who is trained here:

What is EMDR Therapy? - EMDR International Association
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Old 11-22-2015, 09:59 PM
 
710 posts, read 584,979 times
Reputation: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylar0201 View Post
It could be something that you might just "grow" out of too. Here is a case in point of what happened to me:

I too, was heavily bullied when I was in school--from around 4th grade all the way till I graduated in '89. I came from a very low-income family where my folks divorced when I was 7 and my mom was left raising 3 kids on about $10k/yr, so my clothes were not the best of shape and I had to wear what was referred to then as "flood water" pants to school, I had a strong east-coast accent ( and living in a conservative place like WY at the time ) my class mates would make fun of me for that, because I had an annoying callic in the front of my head, a huge overbite with buck teeth, and very thick-rimmed plastic framed glasses. I was a geek or nerd to the tee before becoming a nerd became "cool".

Except for the "flood water pants", and thick-rimmed plastic framed glasses, I still to this day, have these what I'll call "attributes" now.

Classmates squirted ketchup into my locker ( while it was closed ) onto my belongings twice that I can recall, did what they could to trip me walking down the hall to classes, etc and other things that made especially middle and high school literally hell. It got so bad, I almost dropped out in the 11th grade; except my dream then was to join the USAF and I had to have that diploma to get in.

I seemed to develop a little late; as I got my own personality when I was in my 20's and though I was a loner growing up, and still am a bit to this day, I was forced to work with others; hence I think I grew into a personality.

Anyway, by the time I was around 30, I didn't become selfish, but I learned to not care as much what others thought of me. I like being different, and actually have told others "if you don't like or accept me for who I am, that's your damn problem. The world would be a boring place if we were all the same."

I have learned from a few of the former classmates I have had contact with, that many of my classmates ended up in jail, or homeless, or in worse cases, dead--through a mistake made on their part. I'm grateful I haven't had the same circumstance in life, which means I did something right, and they did something wrong. I like to think that karma came back and bit them in the ass for how the treated me and I'm sure others that I didn't know at the time.

I'm now 45 yrs old and feel even more strongly about this. IMO, I think you should just be yourself and if others can't accept you for who you are, that is their damn problem. I think as people age, their self-confidence can adjust to surroundings and they find ways to help rebuild it. You might be the only one to think you're ugly, and perhaps people made fun of you because they're jealous--you might not see it now, but as you get older, you will.

As long as you lead a life on the straight, narrow path, you will come out ahead of those that made fun of you.

Anyway, just my 2 cents on the matter...
Did you ever join the USAF? I myself am interested in joining the USMC. Anyway, I haven't been bullied in years, but I have had people make comments about my appearance here and there and usually they were negative. Physical bullying was never much of a problem for me. I got threatened sometimes and one time I actually did get beat up but it wasn't a big thing for me. I have lead life on a good path, I have made mistakes, but I'm doing okay for myself (for an 18 year old). I have a job, I have no criminal record, I live in a good household, and most people think that I'm a good and responsible person. Even one of the therapists I went to before told me that I was more mature than most 15 year olds (I was 15 when I went). I think the hardest part of getting over all of this will be disregarding their opinions and realizing that what they think doesn't matter. When you get told negative things over and over again for years, it definitely takes an effect on you. Hopefully I will grow out of this, I just want to get a social circle with people who accept me for who I am. I might have mentioned this already, but I actually kind of like spending time with little kids (not in a creepy way). I'm good with them because they are easy to please. They just want someone to play with and they don't care about what a person looks like. I have little sisters and a bunch of small cousins and I like spending time around them.
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Old 11-23-2015, 12:37 AM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,029,142 times
Reputation: 327
The thing about children and getting on with them is that their appreciation of your attention toward them is unconditional - they have no expectations of how people should 'be' with them, so they accept whatever happens in the moment, because there's no reference frame (the way we have learned to view things) to determine otherwise.

I may get slated for this, in a psychology forum, and I haven't read the whole thread, but God has unconditional love and acceptance toward each and everyone of us. We just have to realise it, and accept it into our hearts, I.e. open your heart to that higher idea, that He does love you. He really does.
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