Orlando gay massacre - by a Muslim. Christian perspectives are? (heaven, principle)
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Do you deep down, viscerally feel abhorrence to this massacre? Do you deep down in your heart have a touch of, "Meh, they were gay, so who cares."? Are you angry because a Muslim did this?
I really hope a Christian doesn't reply negative to this horrible, horrible evil.
I really hope a Christian doesn't reply negative to this horrible, horrible evil.
Actual Christians won't support the killer's actions; neither will actual Muslims. Sadly, this nation is full of plenty of "Christians" - total frauds - who aren't really much different than the killer. Oh, sure - maybe they don't actually support *killing* gays. They prefer a more "civilized" method of hatred; you know, reducing civil liberties, dehumanizing the people who are different and trying to keep them out of society, while loudly condemning them to eternal hellfire "cuz the bible says so!" while at the same time trying to pretend that they are "just trying to help / only speaking the word of God" to sooth what little conscious they have. After all, they aren't "real bigots" - they just want to deny "those people" various basic civil liberties and such... because that's not bigotry, we're to believe.
Those false "Christians" are idiots and part of the problem. They don't understand that there is no such thing as "reasonable bigotry" - a nice, stable form of hatred that abuses the victims up to a certain limit, but no further. Bigotry knows no limits. Once one starts down the path of dehumanizing the victims - be it reducing their civil liberties or just condemning them "privately" because "god said so" - violence will be the end result even if not all the bigots support actual violence. Those who support "reasonable bigotry" are basically giving a nod to actual violence.
Not only do we live in a world where Muslim terrorists slaughter people, we live in a world where Christians cheer them on and lament that the government isn't doing the same.
Just one case in point regarding my above post about how so many false "Christians" really aren't any different than the killer. And that's just an example of one who was dumb enough to speak up - the silent ones (just like the silent "Muslims") are the real problem since you never know when "god" will tell them to go kill some of "those people."
If that bigoted pastor was a crazy, hate-filled false Muslim, we'd be blowing him up with drones. But since he's a crazy, hate-filled false Christian, nothing will happen to him. Even if forced to resign, he'll continue peddling hatred under the guise of religion someplace else, but since his unread holy text isn't "their" holy text, we're to believe it's all OK.
I don't have time to read through this whole thread, so don't know if this has already been brought up, but I heard on the BBC today that the shooter was known at the Pulse bar and had dated men, and had a profile on a gay dating site.
I don't think his heinous act had anything to do with religion. He may have used religion and ISIS as a cover-up for his sexual preference. I think this was a crime of passion. As a closeted gay man, he may have been "enraged" at gay men kissing (hearsay from his father), because he did not feel free to do the same, to be himself in public. He may have been enraged by the way he might have been treated by "out" gay men at the bar. He may have been jealous that these men were able to celebrate Pride openly while he was trapped in the closet. Clearly he was highly volatile which can't be blamed on religion. But I think he was a person with violent tendencies who may have been seeking revenge against a gay community where he didn't feel accepted, and ultimately couldn't accept himself.
Actual Christians won't support the killer's actions; neither will actual Muslims. Sadly, this nation is full of plenty of "Christians" - total frauds - who aren't really much different than the killer. Oh, sure - maybe they don't actually support *killing* gays. They prefer a more "civilized" method of hatred; you know, reducing civil liberties, dehumanizing the people who are different and trying to keep them out of society, while loudly condemning them to eternal hellfire "cuz the bible says so!" while at the same time trying to pretend that they are "just trying to help / only speaking the word of God" to sooth what little conscious they have. After all, they aren't "real bigots" - they just want to deny "those people" various basic civil liberties and such... because that's not bigotry, we're to believe.
Those false "Christians" are idiots and part of the problem. They don't understand that there is no such thing as "reasonable bigotry" - a nice, stable form of hatred that abuses the victims up to a certain limit, but no further. Bigotry knows no limits. Once one starts down the path of dehumanizing the victims - be it reducing their civil liberties or just condemning them "privately" because "god said so" - violence will be the end result even if not all the bigots support actual violence. Those who support "reasonable bigotry" are basically giving a nod to actual violence.
Good post.
Any and all who have railed against gays - Christian, Muslim or plain old bigot - have blood on their hands.
Last edited by TroutDude; 06-14-2016 at 04:43 PM..
Actual Christians won't support the killer's actions; neither will actual Muslims. Sadly, this nation is full of plenty of "Christians" - total frauds - who aren't really much different than the killer. Oh, sure - maybe they don't actually support *killing* gays. They prefer a more "civilized" method of hatred; you know, reducing civil liberties, dehumanizing the people who are different and trying to keep them out of society, while loudly condemning them to eternal hellfire "cuz the bible says so!" while at the same time trying to pretend that they are "just trying to help / only speaking the word of God" to sooth what little conscious they have. After all, they aren't "real bigots" - they just want to deny "those people" various basic civil liberties and such... because that's not bigotry, we're to believe.
Those false "Christians" are idiots and part of the problem. They don't understand that there is no such thing as "reasonable bigotry" - a nice, stable form of hatred that abuses the victims up to a certain limit, but no further. Bigotry knows no limits. Once one starts down the path of dehumanizing the victims - be it reducing their civil liberties or just condemning them "privately" because "god said so" - violence will be the end result even if not all the bigots support actual violence. Those who support "reasonable bigotry" are basically giving a nod to actual violence.
I think you are reaching just a little too far when comparing killing gays like Isis tossing gays off of buildings, Christians cannot be compared to that today.. I believe homosexuality is a sin because God says it is a sin but I would not tell a homosexual that he is going to hell because I don't believe it and if he goes to hell, I am right there with them.
Too many people tend to group a person like me in with a person who hates gay people. I don't hate gay people and I sure as heck don't think I am any better than them. I have my own sins that is just as bad whether I touch another person or not.
There is also a spiritual homosexuality that many Christians practice just like the adultery against God when Israel built that golden calf, they were committing adultery and when a person claims to believe in Jesus but then he seeks riches and prosperity, he is committing a type of homosexuality because we are to become submissive virgins to the will of the betrothed but if God comes and finds two men in a bed, it's because the person would not become a submissive virgin.
I don't see myself as bigot because I happen to believe what sin is according to God, I commit acts of sexual immorality myself it's just that when I do, I believe myself to be in sin and no different than a homosexual.
I don't actually touch other people and I haven't in 15 years, but I still believe that I commit acts of sexual immorality.
Unfortunately nowadays, if I choose to believe God, I am labeled a bigot, lol.
I would have just as much love for a homosexual as anyone else, I would help them when they were down and be a friend to them and not see myself any better than they, but I still believe in sin, and that is why I am always found wanting.
hey now. Let's be honest here. I haven't seen any Christians on this board call for a gay person to be physically harmed because of their choice of sexual partners.
As for the civil liberties issue? That's in the eye of the person making the claim. You say I handled it "properly", then bash them for "denying civil rights". There is no civil right to marriage, and certainly not a civil right to a same sex marriage.
The problem is your side wants to brand any kind speech that is not extremely supportive of homosexuality as being "hate speech". I'm not going to support a lie. I firmly believe it is sin based on the word of God.
Now this pastor's comments clearly are hate speech and I agree, they should be condemned. It helps no one or gives God any glory to call for violence against any group. These poor victims last moments on this earth were filled with terror and gore. How anyone could be glad to see that happen is despicable. We are all equal human beings, and everyone needs encouragement and compassion. That is how Christians should respond.
The problem I see is that you see sides of something that really shouldn't have sides.
I don't think that translates to you being happy about what happened. But the point is that.....aren't we both on the same side here? Aren't we both against hating people that don't try to harm others....no matter what label they call themselves? And aren't we both against those that do....no matter what they call themselves?
Yet you stubbornly refuse to get a broader biblical education. If you desire to love and help people, including homosexuals whom you compare to pedophiles, then get that education. If not, you remain firmly entrenched in that vomit of fundamentalism.
It's obvious you either love your bigotry or have an erotic inclination towards members of your same sex that you cannot recognize without professional help.
I'll just leave it there.
Your posts are a joke. Here they are in a nutshell:
1. You're stupid. You need an education.
2. You're a Pharisee. Jesus was against Pharisees so I can hate you!! Score!
3. You're a closet gay person.
4. You're a bigot.
5. Rinse Repeat
If anyone actually believes in your twisted brand of Christianity then they are the ones who need an education. Making up LIES about someone certainly is vomit inducing.
And as usual your response is to choose to remain ignorant of the facts, as you admittedly couldnt even be bothered to make a simple click on a link I went to the trouble of finding and pasting in , and instead choose to whine about how you are mistreated . And before you claim you just haven't had time to click the link and listen to the audio of Knapp, I went back and counted the number of posts you have made since I put that link up, and you have found the time to write out 19 posts since then . NINETEEN . But you couldn't be bothered to take a couple of minutes to listen to an audio that all you had to do was make one click and you would have heard the truth of what Knapp said , in context . Because you don't want to know the truth . You want to be lied to, you want to remain ignorant of the truth, and you have no desire to understand the actual facts . I realize now you are beyond hope in terms of expecting you to deal with issues like an adult , so I won't waste any more time with you .
But Pastor Knapp lied about not saying he wanted the government to kill gays . And another Baptist preacher celebrated the fact that 49 gay people were killed ( post 321) . Whether or not you have the courage to face these facts about your Christian preachers is up to you .
I clearly condemned the post about the pastor today as being reprehensible so your logic doesn't even hold up. What exactly is this truth that I am denying? That there are some bad preachers out there? Ok, I agree. You are just so stubbornly against me that you fabricate arguments that don't even exist.
If I'm having such a hard time admitting that these guys are in the wrong, why would I even make those comments? I've explained before that I only have time to reply to the most recent posts and work backwards so I'm sorry if you think you are so special that your posts deserve top priority. If you are making the effort to go back and count posts then maybe you need to stop taking a meaningless online discussion so seriously.
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