Orlando gay massacre - by a Muslim. Christian perspectives are? (Jacob, confess)
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You do realize that I have stated emphatically on more than one occasion that I'm not God and i do not have a right to judge anyone, right? Nor have I suggested that ANYONE alive today is commanded to do any sort of violence.
So, to answer your question....no--God has not told us to harm anyone, nor has he suggested that they be harmed.
Which God do you worship Viz and how or where do I learn how it feels about homosexuals ?
You do realize that I have stated emphatically on more than one occasion that I'm not God and i do not have a right to judge anyone, right? Nor have I suggested that ANYONE alive today is commanded to do any sort of violence.
So, to answer your question....no--God has not told us to harm anyone, nor has he suggested that they be harmed.
Your god most certainly HAS told people to harm in his name. It's all there in the OT. There are passages that specifically command the stoning to death of homosexuals.
You do realize that I have stated emphatically on more than one occasion that I'm not God and i do not have a right to judge anyone, right? Nor have I suggested that ANYONE alive today is commanded to do any sort of violence.
So, to answer your question....no--God has not told us to harm anyone, nor has he suggested that they be harmed.
As someone else has pointed out I have a much higher opinion of your character and integrity in this matter than I do for some other Christian posters. My guess is that your personal everyday attitude towards the LGBTQ community is better than what scripture gives you license / latitude for. Sadly, that's not saying much.
What I think we are trying to get across is that without explicitly meaning to, sometimes we create structural discrimination and a climate that fosters its continuance. Society also sometimes creates systems that allow people to participate in discrimination in a deniable fashion. A reasonable parallel is that when slavery fell in the 1860s a social system that came to be called Jim Crow was set up to preserve a large measure of the antebellum status quo without resorting to actual slavery. Then when the civil rights movement got legislation like the voting rights act passed during the Johnson administration, after a few years what is now being termed "the new Jim Crow" came in to play, and we now use the prison system and the "war on drugs" to disproportionately disenfranchise and impoverish people of color without resorting to overt racism, racist talk, hate speech, tacitly tolerated lynchings and the like. Even the KKK and other white supremacist groups have cleaned up their language and superficially say the Right Things about black people while still supporting their marginalization in all deniable ways.
My point in all of this is that just as good ol' southern boys have and continue to do their best to keep the races separate and the undesired races out of so-called polite society, the same thing is happening to the gay community -- it makes three steps of progress and then goes two back down. And your ideology is a part of this.
I do not buy your disclaimer about "loving sinners and hating sin". Labeling something sin identifies people AS sinners and therefore as "less than" the righteous. At that point all professions of love for these "less than" individuals is patronizing at best and thinly deniable dehumanization at worst. While this did not directly result in this particular incident, it fosters a climate that make incidents like this particular one, more rather than less likely to happen.
Perry. I agree. We walk all over women, the poor, and our LGBTQ brothers and sisters. All in the name of God. We have no right to demand respect when give none.
I have hope for change. Do not lose heart.
Well I would like to see a woman president, anybody but Hillary though, ugh !!!!!!!! Yes , women are definitely a vital asset and should be revered and they have gain freedoms they did not have in the past. None of us would be here on this forum without women. Thank the Lord for women.
This MUSLIM nut job would have done it regardless of what Christians believe.
This Muslim was raised in an America in which both conservative Christianity and Islam fairly well revile gays , and he apparently had some homosexual feelings himself . You have no idea how such a climate of hate would affect him.
Quote:
Do you realize that in Iran they toss homosexuals off the top of buildings? And you compare that to us simply stating that it is sinful, and objecting to a political position?
I clearly said that I don't care if you regard it as sinful. That's your business . I care about people dehumanizing gays ,,denigrating them as near the same as people who have sex with animals , and child abusers, and trying to take away their rights .
And I hope your argument is not that at least you are not as bad as a radical Muslim country .
There have been instances after this tragedy where various Christian leaders have expressed joy over the killings, or that they wouldn't weep for them, or that they deserved what they got . Can you name me even one of these that have been suspended or fired for saying something that hateful and sickening ? Just one? Not one of their congregations decided their pastor that said something like this went too far for them ? Why not ?
Understand that and you start to get a glimpse of what I am talking about .
Last edited by wallflash; 06-16-2016 at 11:35 AM..
Well I would like to see a woman president, anybody but Hillary though, ugh !!!!!!!!
That is the sentiment of even many Democrats, especially (but not exclusively) the more liberal Democrats, but I would never say "anybody but". Not where Trump is concerned.
Ordinarily I would sit out this election because neither candidate has earned my vote. However if the election is close nationally AND close in my home state, I will hold my nose and vote for H because I consider T to be an actual existential threat to the republic. His normalization of hate speech, conspiracy theories, bigotry and xenophobia, has already damaged this country. He must not only be defeated, but defeated so thoroughly that, as one commentator said yesterday, his great-grandchildren will change their family name in shame so as not to be associated with him.
I'm sorry that, barring some unexpected sea change before the end of July, H will be the tool of his defeat. But ... it is what it is.
It's my view that pragmatically speaking, ones (a)theism or conservatism or liberalism are pretty much irrelevant in the face of the ethical and moral morass that T would lead us into. If theists and conservatives, the self-appointed keepers of all that is good and holy, can't see clearly what I'm talking about here then (ahem) god help us all, because we deserve whatever happens to us.
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