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There several things wrong with this post and full of straw mans, I never seen this post before, so I will respond now
1. There not a term like Caucasian, for black people so some of the African diaspora use the term "African" in same context as terms like Asian
White = Caucasian
Red = Amerindian
Yellow = Asian
Black = just black people?
When people of African diaspora say there "African" they don't mean they from Africa they mean they are native African decent and you dang knew that. Your whole first point of "claiming to be "African" instead of being of African DESCENT" is a staw man because mean African descent.
2. Your second point makes no sense at all. if Blacks Americans don't know about there ancestry means they should learn about there ancestry. Your not making a case why not to, your only making a case more why African Americans should.
My premise is blacks Americans should have the same amount of cultural relation with Africa, As white Americans do with European. And Asians with Asia. and before you same white American and White European don't let me explain cleary.
White Americans don't say European cause they Caucasian
White American don't mention European heritage.... cause say Western culture
The terms "The west" "western civilization" refers to cultures of Europeans
In school we sit learn Greece, the roman Empire, the middle ages, the renascence, but yet you think black Americans should not want to learn about Africa where most of there ancestral come from? .
CaribNY's post sounds like that of someone who has actually lived in the US for a considerable amount of time, describing things as they are.
Your post sounds like someone who has only read about the US, describing what you think things should be.
CaribNY's post sounds like that of someone who has actually lived in the US for a considerable amount of time, describing things as they are.
Your post sounds like someone who has only read about the US, describing what you think things should be.
The irony I am American, and I don't think CaribNY is but that irrelevant.
but no, I'm telling how things are by comparing African American relation with Africans. to Asian Americans to Asia. And Caucasian Americans relation with Europe.
The difference between are post in 2 areas.
1. He stating Blacks Americans and African having bad relation as a reason to keep bad relation. When that exact same thing is the reason why Blacks Americans and Africans should work for better relations.
2. He giving ignorance power... if black Americans or Africans are spewing stereotypes on each other that's ignorance. And what I mean by ignorance they're not that educated in history and social studies. because if one was they will not be out spewing stereotyping of the other group that are actually racist stereotypes of all black people.
If a black American was being made fun of by an African or African being made fun of by a black American. The person being made fun is more intelligent and the person making fun of the other is amused by there on ignorance.
Caribny is on point. There ARE SOME AAs who run-off to Africa, call themselves "African" and say they are "going back home"
and don't have a clue. The latest and prime example being Colin Kaepernick.(At least he went to Egypt where he would blend
in.) Africans find it funny and hilarious when AAs especially those who are almost white talk "Black" "Black" "Black" . I know,
because this is exactly what they told me.
I was reading a book where one of the Afro-centric type AAs went to Ghana, on the streets, some Ghanaians called out:
"Black American?, Jamaican? Rasta? "Welcome Obruni brother and sister! " When she found out that Obruni ment "White"
she got mad. I can imagine what they REALLY thought about Colin Kaepernick behind his back. From what I read, Obruni
means person from beyond the horizon. What that boils down to is that an Obruni is not one of the locals in cultural terms.
In Ghana, this same lady asked "why do you call me white? I certainly was not considered white in America" The answer was "You talk like a white person, you dress like a white person. "Do you speak Fante?" "No" "Hmm" well then you are
Obruni."
This is the trap of American racialized thinking, she is thinking racially, the African is thinking culturally and racially especially if they see someone like Colin Kaepernick. I understand that this whole thing is one Black American reaction against racism and a sense of marginalization, but this means nothing to blacks in majority black societies. Coming to Ghana with American racial baggage.
They have a superficial and romantic notion of what they think 'African" means probably from wearing a robe and beating
a drum or reading a book. I think Africans would have more respect if some Diaspora Blacks just be themselves around
Africans and let the differences and commonalities come out naturally. Don't try to pretend something you are not and
have no real clue about. This is failure to acculturate.
If the issue is being tired of white racism, take 2 weeks off and go to a majority black Caribbean nation. The culture would be
different but NOT AS different as going to Africa.
Caribny is on point. There ARE SOME AAs who run-off to Africa, call themselves "African" and say they are "going back home"
and don't have a clue. The latest and prime example being Colin Kaepernick.(At least he went to Egypt where he would blend
in.) Africans find it funny and hilarious when AAs especially those who are almost white talk "Black" "Black" "Black" . I know,
because this is exactly what they told me.
I was reading a book where one of the Afro-centric type AAs went to Ghana, on the streets, some Ghanaians called out:
"Black American?, Jamaican? Rasta? "Welcome Obruni brother and sister! " When she found out that Obruni ment "White"
she got mad. I can imagine what they REALLY thought about Colin Kaepernick behind his back. From what I read, Obruni
means person from beyond the horizon. What that boils down to is that an Obruni is not one of the locals in cultural terms.
In Ghana, this same lady asked "why do you call me white? I certainly was not considered white in America" The answer was "You talk like a white person, you dress like a white person. "Do you speak Fante?" "No" "Hmm" well then you are
Obruni."
This is the trap of American racialized thinking, she is thinking racially, the African is thinking culturally and racially especially if they see someone like Colin Kaepernick. I understand that this whole thing is one Black American reaction against racism and a sense of marginalization, but this means nothing to blacks in majority black societies. Coming to Ghana with American racial baggage.
They have a superficial and romantic notion of what they think 'African" means probably from wearing a robe and beating
a drum or reading a book. I think Africans would have more respect if some Diaspora Blacks just be themselves around
Africans and let the differences and commonalities come out naturally. Don't try to pretend something you are not and
have no real clue about. This is failure to acculturate.
I can litteally quote my last post as a response to this post
Everything in this post I already state a rebuttal, in which you failed to counter
It's like yall debate while trying to expand a straw mans as much as y'all can.
For example
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal
There several things wrong with this post and full of straw mans, I never seen this post before, so I will respond now
1. There not a term like Caucasian, for black people so some of the African diaspora use the term "African" in same context as terms like Asian
White = Caucasian
Red = Amerindian
Yellow = Asian
Black = just black people?
When people of African diaspora say there "African" they don't mean they from Africa they mean they are native African decent and you dang knew that. Your whole first point of "claiming to be "African" instead of being of African DESCENT" is a staw man because mean African descent.
2. Your second point makes no sense at all. if Blacks Americans don't know about there ancestry means they should learn about there ancestry. Your not making a case why not to, your only making a case more why African Americans should.
My premise is blacks Americans should have the same amount of cultural relation with Africa, As white Americans do with European. And Asians with Asia. and before you same white American and White European don't let me explain cleary.
White Americans don't say European cause they Caucasian
White American don't mention European heritage.... cause say Western culture
The terms "The west" "western civilization" refers to cultures of Europeans
In school we sit learn Greece, the roman Empire, the middle ages, the renascence, but yet you think black Americans should not want to learn about Africa where most of there ancestral come from?
America and Europe take in a lot of pop culture from each other.. So white Americans and British, France, Germany, Italy and etc are so aware of the other music, fashion and etc but yet you think black American should ignore Africa? interesting
"In fact some of the Africans who are most disdainful towards African Americans are in fact the highly educated ones. They fit into decent occupations in the USA, especially if educated at American universities, and so are perplexed as to why so many African Americans have had difficulty in achieving upward mobility. While they don't deny that racism continues to exist they also don't see that it is sufficient to prevent upward mobility."
being well verse in math, and science don't mean there well verse in history and social studies. Anyone who believes in stereotypes are ignorant in that area.
I do not care about an African making fun of the idea of me or other black Americans wanting to learn about Africa cause that ignorance, your giving ignorance power. And this what you don't seem to understand I give pity to the African and African Americans making fun of each other because there celebrating there own ignorance.
African immigrant have a higher rate because there population is smaller in the US. Upward mobility of a few hundred thousand to a few million African immigrants is no where near the complexity of upward mobility 40 million black Americans. over 70 of African Americans are million that's nearly 30 million. So that very example you used, show ignorance cause it's stereotyping African Americans as being for worst in income then blacks actually are.
There also an ignorance of not knowing how far black Americans have come. Even ignoring the large black American middle class that rival first world countries alone. The lower class black Americans neighborhoods got nothing on the slums during the jim crow era, So even lower class blacks Americans have upward mobility to related to history. but if not aware of history you will not understand that.
Because of the media a lot of African immigrants who don't associate think all black Americans live in Compton the hood, and even stranger they think the hoods pre 60's were even as good as Compton is now. from that ignorance yes someone can think oddly there not much upward mobility with black America.
The distant between Africans and African American come from the history racism towards each group, it's almost a inferior complex to prove they are better than the other black group.
Many African Americans believe all the racist Tarzan stuff towards Africans.
And Many Africans believe all the racist cooning stuff towards black Americans
Ignorant black Americans believe African cant accomplish anything, all poor, their lazy and criminals.
ignorant Africans believe African cant accomplish anything, all poor, their lazy and criminals.
If someone thinks Africans are savages and African Americans are thugs they are passing similar stereotypes in different forms.
Your post is basically saying African and African Americans should keep the ignorance of each other, pass back and forth stereotypes which the central point is to ironically express the same racist idea.
I litteally just said when the African diaspora use the word "African" they use in the context of race not meaning their from Africa.
So if your argument is black American trying to saying they are from Africa you purposely trying to create a straw man.
There is no word for black people like cucusian, Amerindian and etc. so their using the African like the Asian disapora use Asian it's not hard to comprehend.
If dhfjkhtg means your ancestors where native to Africa then black Americans would say their dhfjkhtg
Basically posters are trying exploit the fact the term "African" is being use, so they straw manning the context it's being use. If there was another word to mean "black" or native ancestry to Africa then the African diaspora would use that word and not " African". their placing too much emphasis on the word African and ignoring their only using it by default... that their not another word to use like Caucasian, Amerindian and etc.
Americans need to understand the NON-AMERICAN viewpoint. Americans run around and say they are Irish-American, Italian-American, African-American. We know what WE mean when we say that we imply DESCENT. INDIGENOUS people in Ireland,
Italy and Africa see NOTHING OR VERY LITTLE that is Irish, Italian or African about them.
They see AMERICANS. Americans take this ancestry thing and LIMIT IT TO SUPERFICIAL DESCENT. Culture gets left out, that
is the problem. A nationality goes DEEPER THAN DESCENT it involves CULTURE. The people are looking at things culturally.
Before one goes to a country one needs to study that country and find out how he/she will be received. I understand why
some Black Americans feel the need to go "home" to Africa. Alienated, marginalized, made to feel like aliens in their own
country due to racism and rejection. But if someone goes to Africa, they need to get real about what they will encounter.
We can debate about labels and what nationality means what to who but at the end of the day overseas. Americans will be viewed as Americans. I am specifically talking about some AAs who go to Africa with a naive and unrealistic attitude, thinking just because they are
black, they will be automatically accepted.
Americans need to understand the NON-AMERICAN viewpoint. Americans run around and say they are Irish-American, Italian-American, African-American. We know what WE mean when we say that we imply DESCENT. INDIGENOUS people in Ireland,
Italy and Africa see NOTHING OR VERY LITTLE that is Irish, Italian or African about them.
They see AMERICANS. Americans take this ancestry thing and LIMIT IT TO SUPERFICIAL DESCENT. Culture gets left out, that
is the problem. A nationality goes DEEPER THAN DESCENT it involves CULTURE. The people are looking at things culturally.
Before one goes to a country one needs to study that country and find out how he/she will be received. I understand why
some Black Americans feel the need to go "home" to Africa. Alienated, marginalized, made to feel like aliens in their own
country due to racism and rejection. But if someone goes to Africa, they need to get real about what they will encounter.
Reminds me of a friend of mine in Honolulu, a woman of Japanese descent, who finally got to take a trip back to the "mother country." She had always considered herself very "Japanese," but after returning from Japan, she admitted she really wasn't very Japanese at all.
And then, my daughter had a friend who had left Japan only for high school and college...and learned even she could not "go back home again."
Reminds me of a friend of mine in Honolulu, a woman of Japanese descent, who finally got to take a trip back to the "mother country." She had always considered herself very "Japanese," but after returning from Japan, she admitted she really wasn't very Japanese at all.
And then, my daughter had a friend who had left Japan only for high school and college...and learned even she could not "go back home again."
Exactly, that illustrates the point I was trying to make!!! May be hard to take but it is true.
Exactly, that illustrates the point I was trying to make!!! May be hard to take but it is true.
Nope, let try this, Prefer without straw mans
if person 1 argue point A
Person 2 has to argued for or against point A
A straw man happens when person 2 argue against point B, arguing for or against something person 1 never said. misrepresenting person 1 whole argument. Instead person 2 is arguing against what they want the person 1 to say, to win a argument that was never argue.
Your trying your dorn hardiest to make it seem like I said black Americans aren't American. Rather black Americans are the same as Nigerians... this is call a straw man
Again......they are not saying they are "African" as in from Africa.....every time you try to make this the argument it called a "straw man"
They are using the term "African" only because there not a term to refer to black people like Caucasian or Amerindian.
So you understand? are you going to debate against my points, or are you going to continue the straw mans?
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