Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. And 90 plus percent of serious Christians disagree with UR theology. I don't see it in the Bible nor do the rest.
That should tell you something. Start studying. These 4 points should get you started:
1. The Pharisees didn't see Christ in their scriptures either and when he showed up they held their scriptures tight and killed him.
2. The only thing that is eternal is God.
3. Hell has been translated from 4 other words. This is a FACT. Nothing else. Start studying.
4. It's all about politics. Religion usually is. The reformation began because some guys got tired of listening to the only church that existed and started studying. The Protestant church has gone the way of the Catholic church, and people need to start studying. It's really that simple. Don't be lazy.
(Universalists are in all denominations, but many just study at home with small groups and have done so for the last 2000 years)
I am simply repeating the Orthodox understanding. The UR folk disagree. The fact that many have said they would reject God if Eternal Hell/Lake of Fire were the case. That is the case. UR folk have set up a new theology.
My question is: would you sill be faithful to God if your theology was wrong. The fact that nearly all UR folk here said no is telling. And 90 plus percent of serious Christians disagree with UR theology. I don't see it in the Bible nor do the rest. Please, spare me the sermon and just say whether you are good with God even if you don't under stand His ways. I gather the answer is no.
And you know what? I really don't want to discuss UR theology.
Mr5150, I am good with God even if I don't understand His ways because I know He will bring me into full knowledge of the truth, and then I will understand His ways. But that is not exactly what you asked in your OP. I already told you what I would do in your scenario. So which "god" are you asking me if I would reject? The one who can't save all people or the one who doesn't want to save all people? The one who is sad, or happy, or ambivalent about those who are tormented forever?
You need to fully define the question Mr5150. What are you asking I would reject specifically? So far the only thing I reject is your illogical picture of a god who cannot save.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,076,059 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Mr5150, I am good with God even if I don't understand His ways because I know He will bring me into full knowledge of the truth, and then I will understand His ways. But that is not exactly what you asked in your OP. I already told you what I would do in your scenario. So which "god" are you asking me if I would reject? The one who can't save all people or the one who doesn't want to save all people? The one who is sad, or happy, or ambivalent about those who are tormented forever?
You need to fully define the question Mr5150. What are you asking I would reject specifically? So far the only thing I reject is your illogical picture of a god who cannot save.
Like I said in the other posts, God is both an idea and a character to most people. This doesn't detract from his reality, of course, but whatever reality that is is largely seen through the lens of indoctrination and personal inclination. To some Universalists, the God of traditional theology is no more their God than Allah or one of the Hindu gods. They believe traditionalists have distorted the Bible so that they don't even recognise that God anymore. Same with traditionalists who say the Universalist God is not even the same God and accuse Universalists of idolatory for worshipping a 'false God' made in the image of the believer's beliefs.
And 90 plus percent of serious Christians disagree with UR theology. I don't see it in the Bible nor do the rest.
CARM used to have posted as something to decry that over 50% of those who call themselves Christian and over 70% of Christian ministers do not believe in an eternal hell. I don't know if they've removed it or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
And you know what? I really don't want to discuss UR theology.
Like most people who discover they can neither gainsay not resist the truth of God's clear word that He is, "...not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should repent and come to a knowledge of the truth." Of course the Torture advocates insert that it really means God is, "...willing that {some} should not perish, but that {some, not} all should repent and come to the knowledge of the truth."
Like I said in the other posts, God is both an idea and a character to most people. This doesn't detract from his reality, of course, but whatever reality that is is largely seen through the lens of indoctrination and personal inclination. To some Universalists, the God of traditional theology is no more their God than Allah or one of the Hindu gods. They believe traditionalists have distorted the Bible so that they don't even recognise that God anymore. Same with traditionalists who say the Universalist God is not even the same God and accuse Universalists of idolatory for worshipping a 'false God' made in the image of the believer's beliefs.
Exactly. We all (at least us Christians) believe there is a God and He is almighty. Most of us believe He is all-powerful and all-loving.
But then the contradictions begin - He is all-powerful, all-loving, and lets most of His creation suffer forever... huh? Oh but were not supposed to think about it because it is good and loving and complete justice that a living soul is tormented forever. Yeah right. Sorry I'm not buying it - that is why God gave me a brain.
Now we will look at a passage in the New Testament; viz., that precious declaration in John 3:16, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son," etc. We will take into consideration verses 14-17 inclusive; first I will clear up several points of obscurity and error and then give the rendering as it should be.
Thanks, but you don't need to clarify something that is already clear.
Exactly. We all (at least us Christians) believe there is a God and He is almighty. Most of us believe He is all-powerful and all-loving.
But then the contradictions begin - He is all-powerful, all-loving, and lets most of His creation suffer forever... huh? Oh but were not supposed to think about it because it is good and loving and complete justice that a living soul is tormented forever. Yeah right. Sorry I'm not buying it - that is why God gave me a brain.
My brain started going in these horrific loops when I actually started thinking, and I almost gave up on the whole idea of a God, and one who is good, at that. But I knew that the Jesus in the Bible wasn't even close to the spirit that Christianity has pumped out for 2000 years. I didn't know what to do. I felt so lost in the churches.
I thought that the teachers and pastors couldn't have lied to me or misled me. But, they did. Unknowingly, or knowingly, they did. They are a perfect example of the blind leading the blind. When I got over the anger and the fear, I started studying. I'm still far from where I want to be. It's been kind of like stepping off of a ledge. But, perfect love casts out fear. Love God, love your neighbor. I've kept the basics in front of me as I walk on this journey, and I don't let go. This is how it has to be for me.
Thanks, but you don't need to clarify something that is already clear.
There is milk and there is meat. Have you ever heard of mining the scriptures? The noble Bereans studied and studied and studied. They did not have one man above them telling them how it was. They studied. They knew the languages, they knew their history, they were educated. They did NOT sit in a pew every Sunday and let one man tell them what was true and what was not.
You were given the HOLY SPIRIT for a reason and you do not need a man to teach you. Obviously, you cannot go and make up your own religion and say you are the only one with the truth and go float somewhere on a mountain. The body of Christ should work together.
Scripture. Look it up.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
