The Orthodox View of Hell is correct in that Hell is a place of Conscious Everlasting Torment (doctrine, Revelation)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't think it could have been a cry from the flesh because the "flesh" is a term given to that which is carnal and the carnal mind hates God. We know that Jesus would have known He was going to say these words since they are recorded in:
Psa 22:1 To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Jesus is said to be the Sin OFFERING for Israel. So I believe Jesus here is crying out AS Israel. He is the mediator. So while He is being villified by the masses, I see Him here pleading with God as their sin offering. Such that even in His most fragile moment He is not thinking about Himself or His own plight but that of Israel. Israel being Spiritual Israel.
Maybe I used the wrong word, but for myself "flesh" also means human body and Jesus was "in the flesh" while on earth..
I am not one to quote bible verses much, because someone always says I take it out of context( )but this one came to mind
1Peter 3:18 (took liberty in bolding)
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
It is our consciousness that is eternal and it is our consciousness that will experience the next life after our death and rebirth as Spirit. But any torment will be self-imposed once the truth about reality and our life is revealed to us in its entirety. Every single moment of our entire life will be revealed in all its glory or infamy. What we have repented will be covered by the grace of Jesus. What we have not will need to be dealt with . . . probably by experiencing all the negative consequences we inflicted on others. The quantity and quality will differ for each of us (reap what we sowed). But our consciousnesses will be "cleansed" and "refined" and "repaired." God does not destroy His creations . . . He repairs and saves them . . "as if by fire."
Amen!! some things are bound for destruction that are in all of us ..... and a part of all of us is bound for saving.......
No, Mike. Your teaching will lead people to the torments of hell. Anyone who dies in willful sin will go there. No rebellion will be allowed in God's heaven, so the only place for such people is hell fire. Simply professing Jesus' name won't save anyone, even the Universalists do that. It takes a real blood-bought born again experience to walk the narrow road that leads to life; this is God's highway of holiness and righteousness. All other roads lead to destruction.
Legalism is just as much a false gospel as is Universalism. Once a person has placed his faith in Christ he is saved forever. You cannot undo the work of God in salvation. The believers sins are always, ALWAYS, handled as a family matter. The believers sin results in discipline. Not a loss of salvation (Prov 3:11-12; Heb 12:5-13; Rev:19-21.)
Paul warned against the legalism by which you live.
But that is not the topic of this thread.
And I have no intention of pointlessly debating with those who have made obvious, that they are closed to anything other than that which they already believe.
The point of my original post was to present that article. Believe what you will.
And I have no intention of pointlessly debating with those who have made obvious, that they are closed to anything other than that which they already believe.
The wages of dying in a state of willful sin, whether one professes Jesus or not, is the eternal torments of hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham
No, Mike. Your teaching will lead people to the torments of hell. Anyone who dies in willful sin will go there. No rebellion will be allowed in God's heaven, so the only place for such people is hell fire. Simply professing Jesus' name won't save anyone, even the Universalists do that. It takes a real blood-bought born again experience to walk the narrow road that leads to life; this is God's highway of holiness and righteousness. All other roads lead to destruction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Legalism is just as much a false gospel as is Universalism. Once a person has placed his faith in Christ he is saved forever. You cannot undo the work of God in salvation. The believers sins are always, ALWAYS, handled as a family matter. The believers sin results in discipline. Not a loss of salvation (Prov 3:11-12; Heb 12:5-13; Rev:19-21.)
Paul warned against the legalism by which you live.
But that is not the topic of this thread.
And I have no intention of pointlessly debating with those who have made obvious, that they are closed to anything other than that which they already believe.
The point of my original post was to present that article. Believe what you will.
Oh my, do I detect dissension among the ranks of fundamentalism??? Ha now this is rich.....just an observation of one of those pesky UR's you all are always complaining about. Ya'll can manage to argue among yourselves too just fine.
Legalism is just as much a false gospel as is Universalism. Once a person has placed his faith in Christ he is saved forever. You cannot undo the work of God in salvation. The believers sins are always, ALWAYS, handled as a family matter. The believers sin results in discipline. Not a loss of salvation (Prov 3:11-12; Heb 12:5-13; Rev:19-21.)
Those who reject God's requirement for holiness and righteousness love to throw out terms like legalism and self righteousness, but it's only leading themselves and their followers to the everlasting torments of hell -- which is the topic of this thread. God will not allow any willful disobedience into His heaven. Heaven is a holy place for holy people serving a holy God. The everlasting torments of hell is for everyone else.
Oh my, do I detect dissension among the ranks of fundamentalism??? Ha now this is rich.....just an observation of one of those pesky UR's you all are always complaining about. Ya'll can manage to argue among yourselves too just fine.
Yep. If we weren't here, they would fight amongst themselves. They've been fighting for almost 2000 years. If the URs had not existed on CD, I would have pretty much bailed on the whole thing.
Yep. If we weren't here, they would fight amongst themselves. They've been fighting for almost 2000 years. If the URs had not existed on CD, I would have pretty much bailed on the whole thing.
Yes you are so right, there was plenty of infighting going on before the UR's ever showed up. I'm glad I didn't bail completely when I was an ETer.....I did bow out several times but I always came back and there was a reason for that....it was to finally learn the truth of UR. Hallelujah!!
Yes you are so right, there was plenty of infighting going on before the UR's ever showed up. I'm glad I didn't bail completely when I was an ETer.....I did bow out several times but I always came back and there was a reason for that....it was to finally learn the truth of UR. Hallelujah!!
The truth kept coming after you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)but this one came to mind
Ya'll can manage to argue among yourselves too just fine.
If the URs had not existed on CD, I would have pretty much bailed on the whole thing.