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Yeah...God not only makes man deluded, he then punishes him for that delusion. This megalomaniacal god is not the God I know.
If a passage of scripture completely goes against the nature of GOD THAT IS PURE UNCONDITIONAL AGAPE LOVE...it surely can be deemed as a man made interpolation IMHO and is ignored accordingly.
My sentiments as well. A God of Love cannot know anything other than Love. It's only the unspiritual mind of man that deems Him otherwise.
something that eludes most here...... learning from theologians who have had the correct theological training and understanding of the original languages therby use scripture correctly as taught by Jesus \ the Apostles \ and the OT writters.
How do you differentiate between "training" and "indoctrination"? Or, do you even care?
it's just strange to me that GODsends, not only a delusion, but a strong delusion, and it is the recievers' fault..................
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl
Yeah...God not only makes man deluded, he then punishes him for that delusion. This megalomaniacal god is not the God I know.
If a passage of scripture completely goes against the nature of GOD THAT IS PURE UNCONDITIONAL AGAPE LOVE...it surely can be deemed as a man made interpolation IMHO and is ignored accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111
My sentiments as well. A God of Love cannot know anything other than Love. It's only the unspiritual mind of man that deems Him otherwise.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 'and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11]For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12] in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
God does not arbitrarily send delusion on anyone. When the truth is rejected, all that remains is the lie. The context of 2 Thesslonians 2:10-12 is the tribulation. The antichrist will deceive many people because they have rejected the truth of God's word. But the principle of coming under strong delusion applies to anyone who rejects the gospel message of Christ. God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4-6). But when the truth of the gospel message is rejected, God lets those who reject the truth pursue and experience the consequences of falsehood (Romans 1:18-25). God hands people over to their own negative volition. God has revealed the truth in His word. God brings situations into the life of people that will bring out what is in their hearts. Positive volition toward the truth results in blessing. Negative volition toward the truth results in judgment. God, as the judge of men begins his judgment at the moment of rebellion and subjects those who reject the truth to the powerful delusion which comes from choosing error over truth. They choose to believe the lie and as a result, God sends them the delusion that is inherent in their choice. Within the context of 2 Thess 2, the lie is that the antichrist - the man of lawlessness is God.
The reason God sends strong delusion on those who have first rejected the truth is to execute justice (2 Thess 1:6). The consequences of rejection of the truth of the Gospel message is eternal condemnation for those who have chosen to not believe the truth (2 Thess 1:8-9).
Rejection of the truth can be seen in the statements of the posters who I quoted at the top of this post. They don't like something in the Scriptures and therefore deem it to be a manmade doctrine. I'm not familiar with the first poster, but the second and third poster distort the character of God by over emphasizing God's love while completely ignoring His Justice and righteousness. God cannot ignore any of His attributes. God's love expressed toward sinful man must be filtered through His Justice. God cannot save anyone on the basis of His love. He can only save on the basis of His Justice. God's love could only motivate His grace. It is His Justice that made eternal salvation possible. And it is His Justice which must condemn those who reject God's provision for salvation.
Many people will not accept the fact that God is a holy God who must execute judgment, even the judgment of eternal separation in the place commonly called 'hell' on those who reject His provision for salvation. Many people will simply discard anything that the Bible teaches which they don't like, and simply focus on God's love, thereby distorting who and what God really is. And these same people will tell you that they have a higher understanding of spiritual things and that those who believe what the Bible says have been taken in by the doctrines and precepts of men.
Rejection of the truth can be seen in the statements of the posters who I quoted at the top of this post. They don't like something in the Scriptures and therefore deem it to be a manmade doctrine.
What proof do you have that the Bible is not man-made? What proof do you have that Hindu scriptures aren't man-made?
2 Thessalonians 2:10 'and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11]For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12] in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
God does not arbitrarily send delusion on anyone. When the truth is rejected, all that remains is the lie. The context of 2 Thesslonians 2:10-12 is the tribulation. The antichrist will deceive many people because they have rejected the truth of God's word. But the principle of coming under strong delusion applies to anyone who rejects the gospel message of Christ. God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4-6). But when the truth of the gospel message is rejected, God lets those who reject the truth pursue and experience the consequences of falsehood (Romans 1:18-25). God hands people over to their own negative volition. God has revealed the truth in His word. God brings situations into the life of people that will bring out what is in their hearts. Positive volition toward the truth results in blessing. Negative volition toward the truth results in judgment. God, as the judge of men begins his judgment at the moment of rebellion and subjects those who reject the truth to the powerful delusion which comes from choosing error over truth. They choose to believe the lie and as a result, God sends them the delusion that is inherent in their choice. Within the context of 2 Thess 2, the lie is that the antichrist - the man of lawlessness is God.
The reason God sends strong delusion on those who have first rejected the truth is to execute justice (2 Thess 1:6). The consequences of rejection of the truth of the Gospel message is eternal condemnation for those who have chosen to not believe the truth (2 Thess 1:8-9).
Rejection of the truth can be seen in the statements of the posters who I quoted at the top of this post. They don't like something in the Scriptures and therefore deem it to be a manmade doctrine. I'm not familiar with the first poster, but the second and third poster distort the character of God by over emphasizing God's love while completely ignoring His Justice and righteousness. God cannot ignore any of His attributes. God's love expressed toward sinful man must be filtered through His Justice. God cannot save anyone on the basis of His love. He can only save on the basis of His Justice. God's love could only motivate His grace. It is His Justice that made eternal salvation possible. And it is His Justice which must condemn those who reject God's provision for salvation.
Many people will not accept the fact that God is a holy God who must execute judgment, even the judgment of eternal separation in the place commonly called 'hell' on those who reject His provision for salvation. Many people will simply discard anything that the Bible teaches which they don't like, and simply focus on God's love, thereby distorting who and what God really is. And these same people will tell you that they have a higher understanding of spiritual things and that those who believe what the Bible says have been taken in by the doctrines and precepts of men.
First, we can observe in life that people believing a lie for a period of time is what helped them come to Christ. I have a real life example of that.
My mother in law died of emphysema, she was a heavy smoker, and she quit smoking because she believed the oxygen machine she had to use would blow up. That is a danger with the compressed tanks, but this was a portable machine that did not use compressed oxygen and you could throw it into a fire and it would not explode. We all allowed her to believe that lie, consequently she lived for another 10 years and we seen her faith increase during that time.
That is an example of what God intends when sending strong delusions, what he does in those delusions could be more numerous than there are people ever created. We may think it is wrong, and not like it, but indeed, Gods promise and determination to save all mankind is not thwarted by our personal freedoms of our will.
God will not hold it against us for focusing upon love, because the scriptures tell us to do exactly that.
God is love, he is nothing else, does he exhibit attributes called justice, righteousness, holiness, and wrath? Indeed he does, but none of them are apart from love.
Gods wrath remained upon me, not as punishment, but as righteous love in order to bring me to an understanding and acceptance. His Wrath remained upon me for that purpose, not out of the human emotion of retribution.
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
To say to focus upon love is wrong is contradicted here.
1C 13:2 And if I should |have prophecy and should be perceiving all secrets and entirel knowledge, and if I should have entire faith, so as to transport mountains, yet have no love, I am nothing.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 'and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11]For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12] in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
God does not arbitrarily send delusion on anyone. When the truth is rejected, all that remains is the lie. The context of 2 Thesslonians 2:10-12 is the tribulation. The antichrist will deceive many people because they have rejected the truth of God's word. But the principle of coming under strong delusion applies to anyone who rejects the gospel message of Christ. God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4-6). But when the truth of the gospel message is rejected, God lets those who reject the truth pursue and experience the consequences of falsehood (Romans 1:18-25). God hands people over to their own negative volition. God has revealed the truth in His word. God brings situations into the life of people that will bring out what is in their hearts. Positive volition toward the truth results in blessing. Negative volition toward the truth results in judgment. God, as the judge of men begins his judgment at the moment of rebellion and subjects those who reject the truth to the powerful delusion which comes from choosing error over truth. They choose to believe the lie and as a result, God sends them the delusion that is inherent in their choice. Within the context of 2 Thess 2, the lie is that the antichrist - the man of lawlessness is God.
The reason God sends strong delusion on those who have first rejected the truth is to execute justice (2 Thess 1:6). The consequences of rejection of the truth of the Gospel message is eternal condemnation for those who have chosen to not believe the truth (2 Thess 1:8-9).
Rejection of the truth can be seen in the statements of the posters who I quoted at the top of this post. They don't like something in the Scriptures and therefore deem it to be a manmade doctrine. I'm not familiar with the first poster, but the second and third poster distort the character of God by over emphasizing God's love while completely ignoring His Justice and righteousness. God cannot ignore any of His attributes. God's love expressed toward sinful man must be filtered through His Justice. God cannot save anyone on the basis of His love. He can only save on the basis of His Justice. God's love could only motivate His grace. It is His Justice that made eternal salvation possible. And it is His Justice which must condemn those who reject God's provision for salvation.
Many people will not accept the fact that God is a holy God who must execute judgment, even the judgment of eternal separation in the place commonly called 'hell' on those who reject His provision for salvation. Many people will simply discard anything that the Bible teaches which they don't like, and simply focus on God's love, thereby distorting who and what God really is. And these same people will tell you that they have a higher understanding of spiritual things and that those who believe what the Bible says have been taken in by the doctrines and precepts of men.
This could all be said for those who adhere and worship the bible. All you have is other peoples word for things. The bible was believed to be true long before you came along so it seems as if you are merely following in line with what everyone else thinks, or doesn't think. Just because something has been believed for thousands of years, does not make it true.
What if you find that you have been lied to. Will you change and go with what is actually true? What if the bible is all that others have said and is a way to control the masses and keep them in line with their leaders? Will you change your mind and seek the real truth, in which is Love? Or will you be sitting in a corner gnashing at the teeth because you have been lied to and suddenly you find you are without hope until someone comes along and gives you that hope?
2 Thessalonians 2:10 'and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11]For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12] in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
God does not arbitrarily send delusion on anyone. When the truth is rejected, all that remains is the lie. The context of 2 Thesslonians 2:10-12 is the tribulation. The antichrist will deceive many people because they have rejected the truth of God's word. But the principle of coming under strong delusion applies to anyone who rejects the gospel message of Christ. God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4-6). But when the truth of the gospel message is rejected, God lets those who reject the truth pursue and experience the consequences of falsehood (Romans 1:18-25). God hands people over to their own negative volition. God has revealed the truth in His word. God brings situations into the life of people that will bring out what is in their hearts. Positive volition toward the truth results in blessing. Negative volition toward the truth results in judgment. God, as the judge of men begins his judgment at the moment of rebellion and subjects those who reject the truth to the powerful delusion which comes from choosing error over truth. They choose to believe the lie and as a result, God sends them the delusion that is inherent in their choice. Within the context of 2 Thess 2, the lie is that the antichrist - the man of lawlessness is God.
The reason God sends strong delusion on those who have first rejected the truth is to execute justice (2 Thess 1:6). The consequences of rejection of the truth of the Gospel message is eternal condemnation for those who have chosen to not believe the truth (2 Thess 1:8-9).
Rejection of the truth can be seen in the statements of the posters who I quoted at the top of this post. They don't like something in the Scriptures and therefore deem it to be a manmade doctrine. I'm not familiar with the first poster, but the second and third poster distort the character of God by over emphasizing God's love while completely ignoring His Justice and righteousness. God cannot ignore any of His attributes. God's love expressed toward sinful man must be filtered through His Justice. God cannot save anyone on the basis of His love. He can only save on the basis of His Justice. God's love could only motivate His grace. It is His Justice that made eternal salvation possible. And it is His Justice which must condemn those who reject God's provision for salvation.
Many people will not accept the fact that God is a holy God who must execute judgment, even the judgment of eternal separation in the place commonly called 'hell' on those who reject His provision for salvation. Many people will simply discard anything that the Bible teaches which they don't like, and simply focus on God's love, thereby distorting who and what God really is. And these same people will tell you that they have a higher understanding of spiritual things and that those who believe what the Bible says have been taken in by the doctrines and precepts of men.
There is no need for God to execute judgment, justice or punishment to anyone (especially after our spirit leaves this human form)...God IS NOT human and DOES NOT have the human attributes that humanity insists God does...don't you get that???????? There is a universal law that governs us regarding the consequences we face when we are in disharmony with God...it is called KARMA or better known to you as REAPING AND SOWING...which is executed in this life only and is a direct result of our ACTIONS...You GET what you GIVE.
You will one day learn that GOD IS PURE UNCONDITIONAL AGAPE LOVE...and you will rejoice in the fact that you FINALLY learned it.
First, we can observe in life that people believing a lie for a period of time is what helped them come to Christ. I have a real life example of that.
My mother in law died of emphysema, she was a heavy smoker, and she quit smoking because she believed the oxygen machine she had to use would blow up. That is a danger with the compressed tanks, but this was a portable machine that did not use compressed oxygen and you could throw it into a fire and it would not explode. We all allowed her to believe that lie, consequently she lived for another 10 years and we seen her faith increase during that time.
That is an example of what God intends when sending strong delusions, what he does in those delusions could be more numerous than there are people ever created. We may think it is wrong, and not like it, but indeed, Gods promise and determination to save all mankind is not thwarted by our personal freedoms of our will.
God will not hold it against us for focusing upon love, because the scriptures tell us to do exactly that.
God is love, he is nothing else, does he exhibit attributes called justice, righteousness, holiness, and wrath? Indeed he does, but none of them are apart from love.
Gods wrath remained upon me, not as punishment, but as righteous love in order to bring me to an understanding and acceptance. His Wrath remained upon me for that purpose, not out of the human emotion of retribution.
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
To say to focus upon love is wrong is contradicted here.
1C 13:2 And if I should |have prophecy and should be perceiving all secrets and entirel knowledge, and if I should have entire faith, so as to transport mountains, yet have no love, I am nothing.
I'm copying and saving this post, this was truly excellent.
I'm sorry to hear of you mom-in-law's passing but am glad she was able to survive for another 10 years.
I especially loved the bold and what you said here:
Gods wrath remained upon me, not as punishment, but as righteous love in order to bring me to an understanding and acceptance.
This cannot be repeated enough.
There is no FEAR in LOVE for fear has to do with punishment.
wrath... righteous love in order to bring me to an understanding and acceptance
Human's hear the word "wrath" and that ignorant, loveless, carnal side of their being gets pumped up and licks it's chops ready to watch some sort of "God versus human" cage fight or something. They want to see blood!
"God is love BUT He is also WRATH!!!" They chant. over and over...
This same type of mindset is what drove the nails into Jesus' body.
This same type of mindset, this loveless mindset that is the OPPOSITE of Christ, that is ANTICHRIST is what spilled Jesus' blood. Jesus died because of non-love. NON-LOVE is what attempted to destroy Jesus and His message of LOVE. BUT.... within that, God was showing us something. LOVE conquers all. Jesus rose. LOVE will NOT be defeated. God IS Love. Love is the most powerful thing in existence.
We were being shown something. Non-Love does NOT WIN. It will be ERADICATED from existence. He will be ALL in ALL. Jesus preached LOVE. Jesus pointed the way to the FATHER. (GOD). GOD IS LOVE. But the carnal spirit (that which is inside us all) of the day nailed Him to a cross and crucified Him. History repeats, the religious of today are STILL crucifying Him. Crucifying HIS message of LOVE. But.... we know, that love conquers all. This false message, this false gospel is on that WIDE road to destruction. hallelujah. He will be ALL in ALL.
Seriously. How FAR can you possibly get from the REAL MESSAGE?!!!!!!!!
Look at what is being preached in some churches. The farthest you could possibly be from the real message. "God was so mad at us for sinning that He sent His son down to be the whipping boy for all of us. He let out all of His wrath on Jesus!!" "God will fry you for eternity if you don't accept this and 'ask Jesus into your heart and get saved' "
Do you know what that message is? THE CROWN OF THORNS.
What could MOCK God more?
------------------
Jesus came to point the way to the Father.
God is LOVE.
Did He not prove it?
John 15:13 No one has greater love than this--a man laying down his life for his friends.
Last edited by .sparrow.; 08-11-2011 at 09:53 AM..
First, we can observe in life that people believing a lie for a period of time is what helped them come to Christ. I have a real life example of that.
My mother in law died of emphysema, she was a heavy smoker, and she quit smoking because she believed the oxygen machine she had to use would blow up. That is a danger with the compressed tanks, but this was a portable machine that did not use compressed oxygen and you could throw it into a fire and it would not explode. We all allowed her to believe that lie, consequently she lived for another 10 years and we seen her faith increase during that time.
That is an example of what God intends when sending strong delusions, what he does in those delusions could be more numerous than there are people ever created. We may think it is wrong, and not like it, but indeed, Gods promise and determination to save all mankind is not thwarted by our personal freedoms of our will.
I'm not interested in your attempts to dispute what the Scriptures say. God knows who will ultimately come to believe the truth and those who never will. The truth being rejected is the truth of the gospel message concerning Christ. Those who refuse to believe the gospel have only the lie left to believe.
Quote:
God will not hold it against us for focusing upon love, because the scriptures tell us to do exactly that.
God is love, he is nothing else, does he exhibit attributes called justice, righteousness, holiness, and wrath? Indeed he does, but none of them are apart from love.
God is much more than just love. His other attributes are separate from His love though they all function in harmony with each other. As I said, God's love must be focused through His Justice. Since the fall, mans point of contact with God is divine Justice. Not love.
Quote:
Gods wrath remained upon me, not as punishment, but as righteous love in order to bring me to an understanding and acceptance. His Wrath remained upon me for that purpose, not out of the human emotion of retribution.
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
To say to focus upon love is wrong is contradicted here.
1C 13:2 And if I should |have prophecy and should be perceiving all secrets and entirel knowledge, and if I should have entire faith, so as to transport mountains, yet have no love, I am nothing.
Did I say it was wrong to focus on God's love? No, I did not. But to ignore God's holiness and say that because God is love He would not impose eternal punishment on those who reject His provision for eternal salvation distorts God's character.
And you have NOT understood. You are very ignorant, and willingly so, of what the Scriptures teach concerning God and His plan.
You consistantly disregard what the Scriptures say. You say that God does not impose punishment in retribution. But the Scriptures say, as in 2 Thess 1:6 'For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7] and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8] dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9] And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
When the Lord returns at the end of the tribulation, EVERY tribulational unbeliever who has survived to the end of the tribulation, will be cast into the eternal fire as per Matthew 25:41.
And you, and the rest of the universalists can reject that truth as much as your rebellous hearts desire, and it will not change the truth.
End comment. Others will engage you in endless back and forth arguing on the subject. I will not.
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