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Concerning the Universalist heresy, it is a fabricated lie.
I blasted "Eusebius" post with the fact that he misrepresented
Holy Scripture. Jesus Christ made salvation possible for all men,
it is not automatic for all men, nor for the angels. End of discussion.
People create separation from within their own mind, and then believe it to be true.
You're the one with "pretzel logic", because God is omnipotent.
God constitutes its own properties. Since God created beings
which possess free will, and free will of creatures does not
dimish the quality of God, it raises the quality of God, because
God does not create automatons.
Concerning the Universalist heresy, it is a fabricated lie.
I blasted "Eusebius" post with the fact that he misrepresented
Holy Scripture. Jesus Christ made salvation possible for all men,
it is not automatic for all men, nor for the angels. End of discussion.
Your argument is basically "I imagine that God can do anything, therefore anything I imagine to BE true, IS true." Including the fact that God is omniscient but that He can apparently turn His omniscience on and off at will. According to you God can selectively choose not to know certain things. But how would He know which things not to know without first knowing what they are? Makes sense to you apparently. But is the argument, "God can do whatever I say He can," really an argument at all? How does one effectively debate the position, "I declare that my God can do anything, so anything I imagine to be true is valid."
Tired of the Nonsense, if you cannot accept that our free will is independent
of the omniscience of God, then perhaps you can accept that it is at least not
contradictory. If God DOES know what our future freely-made choices will be,
that still does not remove the independence of our actions.
I do not wish to hold up human logic against the nature of the Godhead,
so will no longer participate in your semantics. Good Day.
Tired of the Nonsense, if you cannot accept that our free will is independent
of the omniscience of God, then perhaps you can accept that it is at least not
contradictory. If God DOES know what our future freely-made choices will be,
that still does not remove the independence of our actions.
I do not wish to hold up human logic against the nature of the Godhead,
so will no longer participate in your semantics. Good Day.
Oh dear. As usual, when snowball is confronted with material he doesn't have the ability to refute he puffs up in indignation and solemnly states he will not waste his valuable time debating an issue he disagrees with. What would he do, I wonder, with the clear-cut statement God makes in Isaiah that God will do all that He desires and His desire, according to snowball, is to save all mankind? Snowball completely skipped over my question quite simply because he didn't have a logical answer that would square with holy scripture and more importantly, with God's own words:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Isaiah 46:10 "Everything I desire will come to pass, for I will accomplish ALL that I desire"
So if God desires all to be saved as you said, and if God makes a firm covenant in Isaiah 46:10 that He will accomplish all that He desires, then how on earth can God NOT accomplish all that He desires, which is to save all men???????
Do you dare to attempt to answer the question, snowball, or will you just cut and run again? We are waiting.
You don't understand, are are citing a verse improperly. The Word of God does not say "Christ ransomed all".
It says that He gave Himself AS A RANSOM FOR ALL.
There is a difference. A HUGE difference that you need to
understand if you want to be a Christian of sound doctrine.
Namely, that Christ's eternal sacrifice made it POSSIBLE for
us to be saved, but NOT automatic for all.
God wants all to be saved, but there will be or could be some whom
are NOT SAVED and that of course includes angels, I feel I must say
this because I recall one of your posts, or some other Universalist's
posts that even Satan and his demons and the nephilim will be saved.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
5 for one [is] God, one also [is] mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who did give himself a ransom for all -- the testimony in its own times
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
6 Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.
Darby Translation
4 who desires that all men should be saved and come to [the] knowledge of [the] truth.
5 For God is one, and [the] mediator of God and men one, [the] man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony [to be rendered] in its own times;
King James Version
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
New American Bible
4 who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.c
5 For there is one God.
There is also one mediator between God and the human race,
Christ Jesus, himself human,d
6 who gave himself as ransom for all.
Since Christ gave Himself a ransom for all, all have been ransomed.
One who is ransomed must be freed.
All mankind are in bondage to sin and death.
All mankind have been ransomed by Christ from sin and death.
God will have all mankind to be saved for Christ gave Himself a ransom for all. (1 Tim.2:4-6)
Freedom is not offered to one who is ransomed. One who is ransomed MUST be freed.
Look at every place in the Bible under "ransom" and you will see what I mean.
God even tell us to charge and teach that God is all mankind's Saviour. (see 1 Timothy 4:10 & 11 if you don't believe me.) Notice we are not to teach that God is NOT the Saviour of all mankind. We are to teach that God IS the Saviour of all mankind. A Saviour is one who saves, not just offers salvation.
Do you dare to attempt to answer the question, snowball, or will you just cut and run again? We are waiting.
My replies in this thread to yourself and "Euebius" stand on their own merits
for those who either agree with me or are willing to change their minds
from being mistaken to sound doctrine.
There is no point in further discussion, I said what I wanted to say, it is plain
enough and that is all. I don't beat dead horses. Adios.
Oh dear. As usual, when snowball is confronted with material he doesn't have the ability to refute he puffs up in indignation and solemnly states he will not waste his valuable time debating an issue he disagrees with. What would he do, I wonder, with the clear-cut statement God makes in Isaiah that God will do all that He desires and His desire, according to snowball, is to save all mankind? Snowball completely skipped over my question quite simply because he didn't have a logical answer that would square with holy scripture and more importantly, with God's own words:
Do you dare to attempt to answer the question, snowball, or will you just cut and run again? We are waiting.
I guess he doesn't have a snoball's chance in Hell. LOL
My replies in this thread to yourself and "Euebius" stand on their own merits
for those who either agree with me or are willing to change their minds
from being mistaken to sound doctrine.
There is no point in further discussion, I said what I wanted to say, it is plain
enough and that is all. I don't beat dead horses. Adios.
Just as I anticipated---snowball cuts and runs.
Snowball doesn't like the idea that God promises He will accomplish ALL that He desires to do and part of His desires is to save ALL man as snowball himself stated. So not having any way of reconciling these two promises that the Bible makes--presumably because he has some enemies here on earth he'd like nothing more than to see burning forever in hell---he prefers to just keep his erroneous belief that God might promise He will do ALL that He desires, but in the end God will be unable to carry out His will. In this way, snowball's presumed enemies cannot be saved under "God will have all men to be saved" and will burn forever. That makes snowball happy, I suppose. Like I said in my OP, a somewhat dopey attitude to have.
Since Christ gave Himself a ransom for all, all have been ransomed.
One who is ransomed must be freed.
So many people have tried to explain it to you, but you are not getting it. He was given as ransom for all, but if a person rejects it, then he/she chooses to remain in bondage.
"whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life"
Same message is repeated so many times that anyone who rejects it, is doing it willingly.
Snowball doesn't like the idea that God promises He will accomplish ALL that He desires to do and part of His desires is to save ALL man as snowball himself stated. So not having any way of reconciling these two promises that the Bible makes--presumably because he has some enemies here on earth he'd like nothing more than to see burning forever in hell---he prefers to just keep his erroneous belief that God might promise He will do ALL that He desires, but in the end God will be unable to carry out His will. In this way, snowball's presumed enemies cannot be saved under "God will have all men to be saved" and will burn forever. That makes snowball happy, I suppose. Like I said in my OP, a somewhat dopey attitude to have.
Thanks for sharing your views. Oh, wait, you didn't share anything except a long post about another poster. What a hypocrite.
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