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Old 01-08-2010, 12:44 AM
 
696 posts, read 731,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
That is exactly my point.. no one has a lease on God... No one should disparage another religion when there is no exclusivity in God.
If you make the assumption that Christianity is a religon. Think about what u just agreed with. Many Christians have religon, but not many have faith. My point was that true Christianity is not a religon it is a faith. You are correct that no one has a lease on God, but you are incorrect in assuming equality of faith. I lament the fact that even many people who say they love Christ will come to find that they didn't. Their actions dont show it.

One of the most modern failure's of the church was to allow democracy into its thoughts. Find one religon that accepts the blood of an innocent man to pay for the lives of all who believe in him. All other religons assume innocence first before guilt. Ahhhhh doesnt our democracy do that. The Bible places guilt first. Our innocence is in Christ. We can not earn it or buy it. What religon equally states what our faith claims for us as Christians?
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:52 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,565,998 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Kat, SPM, and Christy,

Provide us here an detailed exegesis of why you believe this.
Not just one verse or two taken out of context, but analyze the language, to prove your case.
This isn`t scripture.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,877,099 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
If you make the assumption that Christianity is a religon. Think about what u just agreed with. Many Christians have religon, but not many have faith. My point was that true Christianity is not a religon it is a faith. You are correct that no one has a lease on God, but you are incorrect in assuming equality of faith. I lament the fact that even many people who say they love Christ will come to find that they didn't. Their actions dont show it.
I believe the bible teaches that God is the author of the love. Yet you state that someone must love Christ in order to be one with God. That is called religion. Including some who believe the same and excluding those who don't. If you agree that God is not for rent then you must agree that God is God of all Gods.. So are you saying that someone in a remote part of the world calls the only God they know BAllah and suddenly they are not worshiping the same God, etc..

I would not say that Christianity is about faith but more about the profession of faith. The actions, the prayers, the baptism... all professions of supposed faith in Christ but your actions in excluding those who disagree with you about God is not showing love of Christ... so don't you fall into the very category you are condemning?

Quote:
One of the most modern failure's of the church was to allow democracy into its thoughts. Find one religon that accepts the blood of an innocent man to pay for the lives of all who believe in him. All other religons assume innocence first before guilt. Ahhhhh doesnt our democracy do that. The Bible places guilt first. Our innocence is in Christ. We can not earn it or buy it. What religon equally states what our faith claims for us as Christians?
Good deeds = Reward... all the major religions LOL

Websters definition of religion:
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

That covers pretty much all religions.

There are spiritual truths and moral guidelines in every organized religion. One is no better than the other. I think Christianity fails in that the focus is on Christ rather than God when Christ clearly taught that God is the one you pray to, worship, have a relationship... but that is just my opinion, and I am perfectly content to accept yours even though I disagree with it.
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Old 01-08-2010, 02:29 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,091,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertwr View Post
THE NATURE OF CHRIST
"We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see His just as He is" [1 John 3:2]. Christ now, while He is at the right hand of God in Heaven has a spiritual body and this is how we will see Him when He returns. Not the nature He had when He had for about 33 years when He was in the image of Adam (an earthly body as Adam), but the nature He has now while He is at the right hand of God in Heaven. What Christ is like now is what He will be like "when He appears." The body He now has and will have at that time is basis to understand what we shall be after the resurrection.
THE NATURE OF CHRIST BEFORE HE BECAME FLESH, the God who made all things and us.
"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image" [Genesis 1:26].
"IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD [CHRIST], AND THE WORD [CHRIST] WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD [CHRIST] WAS GOD. HE [CHRIST] WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. ALL THINGS CAME INTO BEING BY HIM [CHRIST], AND APART FROM HIM [CHRIST] NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING. IN HIM [CHRIST] WAS LIFE, AND THE LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN...HE [CHRIST] WAS IN THE WORLD AND THE WORLD WAS MADE THROUGH HIM [CHRIST]...AND THE WORD [CHRIST] BECAME FLESH, AND DWELLED AMONG US" [JOHN 1:1-14].
John states three facts in such a simple way that a child could understand them.
(1) "In the beginning was the Word" [John 1:14; 1 John 1:1; Revelation 19:3].
(2) "And the Word was with God"
(3) "And the Word was God."
Then he restates it so that no one could misunderstand what he had said.
(4) "The same was in the beginning with God"
(5) "All things were made through him"
(6) "And without him was not anything made that has been made." "For God did not SEND THE SON INTO THE WORLD to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him" [John 3:17]. "FOR I HAVE COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do My own will, but the will of HIM WHO SENT ME" [John 6:38].
"AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH, AND DWELLED AMONG US" [John 1:14].
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS BORN, I AM" [John 8:58]. In John 8 Jesus claims to be one with God about 12 times.
"Christ: for in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" [Colossians 2:9].
"For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that you through his poverty might become rich" [2 Corinthians 8:9]
"Not that any man has seen the Father, ACCEPT THE ONE WHO IS FROM GOD; HE HAS SEEN THE FATHER" [John 6:46]. If, as some PreMillennialist teaches that Jesus did not exist before His birth, He had not seen the Father. If PreMillennialist were right, that Jesus did not exist before His birth, then Jesus lied.
"And no one has ascended into heaven, BUT HE THAT DESCENDED OUT OF HEAVEN, even the Son of man" [John 3:13].
"Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, AND THAT HE CAME FORTH FROM GOD, AND WAS GOING BACK TO GOD" [John 13:3].
"And have believed that I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER. I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER, AND HAVE COME INTO THE WORLD; I AM LEAVING THE WORLD AGAIN, AND GOING TO THE FATHER" [John 16:27-28].
"For this cause; therefore, the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the Sabbath, but also called God his own father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD" [John 5:18].
"Who, existing in the form of God, counted not the BEING ON AN EQUALITY WITH GOD a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant" [Philippians 2:6-7].
"When the fullness of time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman" [Galatians 4:4].
See Matthew 1:19-25; 20:28; Luke 1:26-38; 19:10.
This proves beyond any doubt that Christ preexisted with the Father in Heaven before He came to earth, in the same form and equal with the Father.
His claim to being equal with God was even acknowledged by His enemies, but they called it blasphemy [John 5:17; 5:18; 8:58-59; 10:33-36]. If, as some PreMillennialist tells us that Christ did not exist unto His birth, it would have been blasphemy and a sin to make Himself equal with God. Therefore, if He did not exist before His birth, He did blaspheme and He was a sinner just as we are and His death did not save us from our sins. But, some PreMillennialist tells us that Christ did not exist unto His birth!!! Is there anyway God's word could say "the word" preexisted that they would believe? "The word" existed before time began.
1. "And now, glorify Me together with Yourself, Father, with the glory WHICH I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD WAS" [John 17:5]. Christ existed with God before the world was made, long before He became a man.
2. And again Christ says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, THE ALMIGHTY" [Revelation 1:8]. Jesus clearly says He is "THE ALMIGHTY."
3. "For by Him [Christ] all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers and authorities--all thing have been created by Him and for Him. AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THING, and in Him all things hold together" [Colossians 1:16-17]. Jesus Christ is the Creator of the universe. Three things are here stated.
(1) "For in Him were all things created"
All things "in the havens and upon the earth"
"Things visible and thing invisible"
"Whether thrones or dominions or principalities or power"
"All things have been created through Him, and for Him"
(2) "And He is before all things"
(3) "And in Him all things hold together"
Christ said, "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE. The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, 'Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of those works do you stone Me'? The Jews answered him, 'For a good work we stone you not, but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, MAKE YOURSELF GOD'" [John 10:30-33]. If Christ is not God, He is an impostor and a liar. The Jews did not understand Christ to be saying He was God's chosen one, as many PreMillennialist say. Without any doubt, they understood Him to be saying He was God.
"A virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name IMMANUEL" [Isaiah 7:14]. Immanuel means "God with us." Matthew says, "Now all this is come to pass, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel: which is, being interpreted, God with us" [Matthew 1:22-23].
"Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR, CHRIST JESUS: who gave Himself for us" [Titus 2:13-14].
"Of our GOD AND SAVIOR, CHRIST JESUS" [2 Peter 1:1 New American Standard Version].
"But of the Son he says 'YOUR THRONE, O GOD, is forever and ever'" [Hebrews 1:8].
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes and forever" [Hebrews 13:8; also Hebrews 1:12; Psalms 102:25-27].
"Christ Jesus who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on AN EQUALITY WITH GOD a thing to be grasped" [Philippians 2:5-6].
Also, Revelation 10:6 and 14:6-7
Jesus built all things [John 1:1-3; 1:10; Acts 14:15; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11; 10:6].
God built all things [Hebrews 3:4].
Therefore, Jesus and God are one God. "I and the Father are one" [John 10:30].
ONLY GOD IS TO BE WORSHIPED. NO MAN OR ANGEL IS TO BE WORSHIPED, BUT CHRIST IS WORSHIPED [Isaiah 45:21-23; Matthew 2:1; 14:33; 28:9; 28:17; Luke 24:51-52; John 9:37-38; Acts 7:59; 1 Corinthians 16:22; Philippians 2:11-11; 1 Timothy 1:12; Revelation 1:17; 5:8-14; many more]. IF CHRIST WERE NOT GOD, BUT ACCEPTED OR ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE WORSHIPED, HE WOULD BE PUTTING HIMSELF IN THE PLACE OF GOD WHEN HE WAS ONLY A MAN; IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BLASPHEMING AS THE JEWS FREQUENTLY ACCUSED HIM OF DOING [Mark 2:6-8; John 5:18].
JESUS IS THE "I AM"
"Before Abraham was born, I AM" [John 8:58].
"But he said unto them, I AM, be not afraid" [John 6:20; Matthew 14:27; Mark 6:50].

robertwr.com
Jesus is God and He will be who He says that He is, no matter who deny Him. The bible says that people today would deny Him, and we are seeing that today.

If you put some space in between it would be easier to read.
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Old 01-08-2010, 02:48 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,008,521 times
Reputation: 167
MissShawn...I hope that you have read this thread before pointing the finger that some are denying Jesus and God as you are very and sadly mistaken.

You cannot find 1 single verse that says we have to believe Jesus is the Father. Not one! And it shocks me that you still hold to this belief, even though it isn’t found 1 single time. Instead, you choose to rely on ridiculous verses which clearly are not trying to say Jesus is the Supreme God (the Father).

Not only that, but Jesus even plainly says, “Anyone who commits blasphemy against the Son is forgiven. But not against the Holy Spirit.” So even Jesus says it is forgiven if you blaspheme his “flesh”, but not his God.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, the savior who died on the cross. I believe he now sits at God’s right hand in power & glory. I believe that by following Jesus’ teachings, we follow God.

I believe God is separate as the bible (and even the trinity) declares. I believe the Father is greater as Jesus’ own lips, the disciples, and bible declares. I believe Jesus is created by God, the first creation of God. I believe in following God’s laws, repenting of Sin, and living a good life.

What if I Am Wrong? If I am wrong, then guess what? Nothing. That is right! It doesn’t matter. How do I know? Because I follow what Jesus’ lips say, not a preacher (who went to school & was taught that Jesus is God in order to pass class).
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Old 01-08-2010, 05:05 AM
 
696 posts, read 731,380 times
Reputation: 66
I always am amazed every time someone points out the flaws of a preacher, when even David would not slay Saul the Lord's annointed. In fact he killed the very one who claimed to do it. What do you all have to fear from preachers? People rail against organized religon, but they follow organized government. They pay their taxes, they register their cars, some vote, some drive responsibily and under the speed limit. Some join labor unions. Some divide themselves into political parties which is the height of organized religon. Yet one pastor draws more scrutiny. Simply amazing.
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,028,222 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was made flesh. It is fairly easy to see the Word is God. If Jesus is the Word, is he not God? Before one says Jesus isn't God they should take note that every other religon outside of our faith teaches Jesus is not God. It is that one difference that sets us apart. In short Jesus is God.
As we become the word, we don't become God. We become like Him....Just as our Brother Jesus and many others have become.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:45 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 11,934,823 times
Reputation: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
As we become the word, we don't become God. We become like Him....Just as our Brother Jesus and many others have become.

godspeed,

freedom
I have never heard the bible describe Him as "Brother Jesus"
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Old 01-08-2010, 10:06 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,091,905 times
Reputation: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by SisterKat View Post
MissShawn...I hope that you have read this thread before pointing the finger that some are denying Jesus and God as you are very and sadly mistaken.

You cannot find 1 single verse that says we have to believe Jesus is the Father. Not one! And it shocks me that you still hold to this belief, even though it isn’t found 1 single time. Instead, you choose to rely on ridiculous verses which clearly are not trying to say Jesus is the Supreme God (the Father).

Not only that, but Jesus even plainly says, “Anyone who commits blasphemy against the Son is forgiven. But not against the Holy Spirit.” So even Jesus says it is forgiven if you blaspheme his “flesh”, but not his God.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, the savior who died on the cross. I believe he now sits at God’s right hand in power & glory. I believe that by following Jesus’ teachings, we follow God.

I believe God is separate as the bible (and even the trinity) declares. I believe the Father is greater as Jesus’ own lips, the disciples, and bible declares. I believe Jesus is created by God, the first creation of God. I believe in following God’s laws, repenting of Sin, and living a good life.

What if I Am Wrong? If I am wrong, then guess what? Nothing. That is right! It doesn’t matter. How do I know? Because I follow what Jesus’ lips say, not a preacher (who went to school & was taught that Jesus is God in order to pass class).
What, I am not pointing the finger at anyone on this thread, but for reason you feel pointed out to respond to my post.

Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, and He is also God. This is what I believe and you can believe what you believe. I am not pointing the finger, I am simply stating what is happening in the world, and what God said in His Word.
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Old 01-08-2010, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 4,843,030 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I have never heard the bible describe Him as "Brother Jesus"
Matthew 12:50 "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."

Are you not a brother to Jesus?
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