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That's an assumption. That is what we do here...we contend and debate....hence debate forum...or not...or let someone else. The OP was taken from the link, and at the link there are plenty of areas for rebuttal....many verses and interpretations to counter. That's how it is done. You can simply just disagree, but how does that help your ministry here? This isn't the Berean thread either...this is the IPA...International Preterist Association.
I'm contending with the article on basis that the article mischaracterizes universalism. The article presents warped view of what universalists typically believe, namely that anyone can be saved apart from faith in Christ.
You are living proof of that, and even after all you've read about Universalism, you don't even know what it is, or else you purposely spread lies about the belief.
Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 05-16-2010 at 12:06 PM..
You are living proof of that, and even after all you've read about Universalism, you don't even know what it is, or else you purposely spread lies about the belief.
Just wanted to point out that the quote says I said that, but it was actually Mike555.
I just showed you how it IS NOT a lie or a cult, yet you still slander and call universalism a cult and a lie from Satan. I rather suspect that you will remain in the lie of ET as well. When you're cornered you resort to name calling and untruths. How do you think your behavior is furthering the gospel Mike? If I were an atheist/agnostic I would be shaking my head at you, simply because you're playing right into your own devil's hands.
[Said by Herefornow on post #197 of my thread 'What Does the Bible Say About Hell.'
I have often noticed that you are unyielding in your opinions until you are cornered. Instead of confessing and saying you might be a little confused on the subject or just even missed something, or maybe don't quite understand, you will adjust your frequency and move around just a bit. Interesting.]
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Borrowing are we??? Cornered??? I think not. Cornered how? By whom? In what manner? With regard to what?
Resorting to Slander and name calling you say? Again. Who? Where? In what manner?
APOSTATES, CULTS, HERESIES AND THE TRUTH (http://www.theabalonekid.com/id129.html - broken link)
Playing into right into MY devils hands? Does Satan want to deceive people into thinking that they are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire? For what purpose? Or does he want to deceive people into thinking wrongly that everyone will be saved when the word of God says otherwise, so that they may never get around to believing the Gospel?
Well, if you can ever figure out the answer to that, perhaps you'll return to the truth.
Univiersalism is unbiblical. It leaves the way of truth and places Jesus Christ on the periphery of God’s plan of redemption. It declares repentance out of date, the born-again experience unnecessary, and accuses those who criticize Univiersalism as not understanding the fullness of God’s “grace.†God’s true grace is in His Son, Jesus Christ. He saves you as an individual. Salvation is an intimate, personal experience with the Lord. It is not an impersonal, universal principle for all mankind.
In the world today many saints witness for Jesus Christ at the risk of their freedom, their well being, and their very lives. One organization that reports on these activities is The Voice of the Martyrs.
These faithful saints live in repressive regimes. The powers that be hate the Gospel and the name of Jesus Christ. It takes great courage and Holy Spirit power to enable these children of God to preach and teach the hope of salvation in Christ.
Many go to prison. Many suffer disfigurement, and many die. They think it is worth it for the privilege of telling the lost about Jesus Christ and His salvation. They believe God enables them to infiltrate the darkness. We believe He does, too.
One wonders what these courageous saints would say to the teachers of the false doctrine of Univiersalism?
More exegesis at the link above.
That isn't even universalism. For example, you said that repentance was out of date. I don't know of this understanding of universalism. You seem to believe that universalists claim that your saved apart from Jesus Christ. This seems to hold true that those that ATTEMPT to refute universalism are only refuting a strawman argument of what they believe universalism is.
Exactly - His purpose will stand, and He will do all His pleasure (Isa 46:10).
What is His will, Mike? What will He do?
He will do this. Matthew 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me accursed ones into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. 46) And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''
And this. Matthew 7:23 ''And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, You who practice lawlessness.
He will do this. Matthew 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me accursed ones into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. 46) And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''
And this. Matthew 7:23 ''And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, You who practice lawlessness.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Which really says:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into age-enduring chastisement: but the righteous into age-enduring Life.
Aionios here doesn't speak to a finite or infinite state - it just explains that something endures the current age.
Said by Herefornow on post #197 of my thread 'What Does the Bible Say About Hell.'
I have often noticed that you are unyielding in your opinions until you are cornered. Instead of confessing and saying you might be a little confused on the subject or just even missed something, or maybe don't quite understand, you will adjust your frequency and move around just a bit. Interesting.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------- Borrowing are we??? Cornered??? I think not. Cornered how? By whom? In what manner? With regard to what?
Wow. You'll go to great lengths to prove something that isn't even true. I didn't realize that the word "cornered" could only be used once and that Herefornow had the market "cornered" on "cornered". And you are doing exactly what you always do when you are cornered and have no ability to refute what someone said.....flaming, name calling and making false accusations. Herefornow was right, and so am I.
Quote:
Resorting to Slander and name calling you say? Again. Who? Where? In what manner?
Universalism is a cult. And it is a Satanic lie.
You just answered your own question!! What exactly is your definition of a "cult"? Any belief that doesn't agree with yours?
Quote:
Playing into right into MY devils hands? Does Satan want to deceive people into thinking that they are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire? For what purpose? Or does he want to deceive people into thinking wrongly that everyone will be saved when the word of God says otherwise, so that they may never get around to believing the Gospel?
Well, if you can ever figure out the answer to that, perhaps you'll return to the truth.
Yes, playing right into the devil's hands by scaring the bejeebers out of people.....scaring them away from God. How many people have been saved through your tactics Mike? I was never able to bring anyone to Christ by telling them they were going to hell if they didn't do what I said. And yes, Satan does want you to scare people into thinking they are going to spend eternity in some eternal torture chamber. Because it has the perfect response in His eyes of turning people away from God.
Perhaps if you realize what you are doing doesn't work for Christ then maybe you'll find the truth....that God IS love, that you are assassinating His character and playing right into the devil's schemes. ET is the lie, and in your heart you know that. We always hold on to these untruths out of pride or fear of rejection but is it worth all of that to see others fall away from God?
Playing into right into MY devils hands? Does Satan want to deceive people into thinking that they are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire? For what purpose? Or does he want to deceive people into thinking wrongly that everyone will be saved when the word of God says otherwise, so that they may never get around to believing the Gospel?
Well, if you can ever figure out the answer to that, perhaps you'll return to the truth.
The purpose for Satan deceiving people into believing they will spend eternity in a lake of fire is so he can undermine God's love and make people think he's a horrible, sadistic torturer. Those who love Him, and at the same time believe He's a torturer, don't fully know Him. Their true devotion is to belief in their religion, and not to knowing the heart of God.
So do you think when someone finally "gets around" to believing in Jesus just to avoid hell, this counts toward salvation? Where is the change of heart in that, or does that even matter? You say it's all based on believing in Jesus.
When I was 9 I nearly ran down the aisle of the church after a threatening sermon on hell fire. I was scared to death of that happening to me. I "believed" in Jesus years before that, but I had never said "the sinner's prayer." My heart never changed, and I tried to stop being mean to my sister and stuff like that, but I was the same inside. I had anger and selfishness and sibling rivalry.
The next year, a song touched my heart that said:
Jesus is tenderly calling me home
Calling today, calling today
Why from the sunshine of love will thou roam
Farther and farther away?
Calling today, calling today
Jesus is calling, is tenderly calling today.
Jesus is calling the weary to rest
Calling today, calling today
Bring Him thy burden and thou shalt be blessed
He will not turn thee away.
Calling today, calling today
Jesus is calling, is tenderly calling today.
Jesus is pleading, O list to His voice
Hear Him today, hear Him today
They who believe on His Name shall rejoice
Quickly arise and away.
Calling today, calling today
Jesus is calling, He is tenderly calling today...
I went up and "rededicated my life," but I know that is when my heart and life changed. I wanted to live right because I loved God with my whole heart.
Why can't you see that being afraid of hell never made anyone know God? So even IF Universalists are wrong (IMO, there's no way), why do you think we are helping to send people to hell when a belief in hell DOES NOT make people draw closer to Jesus. A belief in hell certainly doesn't SAVE anyone. In fact, it turns them away. That's exactly what the devil wants.
According to what you believe, I was saved because I believed in Jesus and I was terrified of burning forever, so I prayed a sinner's prayer. I could have "eternal security" according to you, just because I believed and prayed that prayer, even though my heart was not healed by the Holy Spirit. If it had not been for my transformation when I was 10, I might not have had any way of knowing that the truth was, I didn't even have a relationship with God - only a fear of hell. I would have continued on the path I was on, growing deeper into anger and selfishness.
Your view that someone has to believe God will torture people to have a change of heart and love God and want to live for Him is way off, Mike.
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What exactly is your definition of a "cult"? Any belief that doesn't agree with yours?
