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Old 06-12-2011, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,056 posts, read 30,532,336 times
Reputation: 10490

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
I think we need to look at both sides Sans. I'm sure that both you and I would be first in the line if we felt our countries were being occupied.
So will we now ask Native Americans how they feel about our presence on this continent? How about Jordanians--who are now the minority in "their" country, since 60% of the population is Palestinian?

 
Old 06-12-2011, 05:54 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,426,292 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
So will we now ask Native Americans how they feel about our presence on this continent? How about Jordanians--who are now the minority in "their" country, since 60% of the population is Palestinian?

And the parts of the United States that belonged to Mexico, lets make everyone move and give it all back.

The point is that there has been global movements and everyone came from somewhere else.

The whole middle East is full of folks who came from somewhere else like Fred said. The Jordanians took the land that was Palestinian but who says anything about that? Guess it does not matter because its among muslims.
 
Old 06-12-2011, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
The Jordanians took the land that was Palestinian but who says anything about that? Guess it does not matter because its among muslims.
Just might be nobody is concerned because of this:


Quote:
Jordan Ethnic groups

: Arab 98%, Circassian 1%, Armenian 1%
Source

Until the Palestine mandate divided the Country Jordan and Palestine were one country. In 1947-48 many of the Displaced Palestinians were exiled to what became Jordan.

 
Old 06-13-2011, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,343,010 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
So will we now ask Native Americans how they feel about our presence on this continent? How about Jordanians--who are now the minority in "their" country, since 60% of the population is Palestinian?
Oh, don't start me on the plight of the Native Americans Fred!!
 
Old 06-13-2011, 05:07 AM
 
570 posts, read 636,768 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
If Israel got out of the land it occupies perhaps the attacks would cease.

Israel is allowed to use reasonable force to protect it's citizens. If a country attacks you, you are entitled to respond to defend yourself. But you cannot respond with disproportionate force. I cannot burn your house down because you spat on me but I can punch you on the nose and be in the clear.

Israel has a history of using disproportionate force. It's war with Hezbollah drew international condemnation for its use of cluster bombs and disproportionate use of force, regardless of the fact that Hezbollah provoked the war. In 1993, Israel's seven-day bombing campaign of Lebanon in retaliation for Hezbollah rocket attacks was also criticized. And in 1981, Israel struck Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor without provocation, under the laughable excuse of "anticipatory self-defence."

Israel's actions against Palestinian attacks are disproportionate. As I said earlier, it's very annoying when someone destroys your rose garden by throwing a $10 home-made grenade over the garden wall but that does not entitle you to respond to the $10 grenade with a $10,000,000 barrage of sophisticated guided missiles.
Since we often differ in our opinions I never thought I'd Say this one day but :
Thank you Rafius for being fair here ... respect
Expect to be accused as an Anti-Semitic any moment now

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
You have just exposed yourself as a terrorist with that statement...You really don't want peace, what you want is the extermination of Israel.
Ok ... lets see
Israel is an occupying power
You must defend your land against the occupier ...
The extermination of the bigest terrorist state in history
It is natural not to accept peace with an occupation force
Defending your land is a sacred duty to any human beings ...
Yahh ... I am committed to what I said before
All norms of humanity throughout history did not accept peace with an occupation force so why do you want Israel to be an exception !!!

Last edited by squall-lionheart; 06-13-2011 at 05:20 AM..
 
Old 06-13-2011, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,056 posts, read 30,532,336 times
Reputation: 10490
Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
Since we often differ in our opinions I never thought I'd Say this one day but :
Thank you Rafius for being fair here ... respect
Expect to be accused as an Anti-Semitic any moment now


Ok ... lets see
Israel is an occupying power
You must defend your land against the occupier ...
The extermination of the bigest terrorist state in history
It is natural not to accept peace with an occupation force \
You "expect to be accused?" You sure as hell shouldn't be surprised. Your real problem isn't with a State of Israel. Your real problem is with a Jewish State of Israel. But you seem to think that by leaving out that first word, you're maintaining a completely political standpoint. Unfortunately, you aren't nearly as slick as you seem to believe.

Why don't you just stop pretending, and come right out and say that you'd like to eliminate Jews in that part of the world...or at least confine them to second-rate status, like they have in Syria?
 
Old 06-14-2011, 06:10 AM
 
570 posts, read 636,768 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Fred314XYou
"expect to be accused?" You sure as hell shouldn't be surprised.
Skipped ..
Quote:
Your real problem isn't with a State of Israel. Your real problem is with a Jewish State of Israel.
Israel is a Jewish State & a Jewish State is Israel ... right ?
Therefore your former words have no meaning what so ever ..
It just like saying what came first the chicken or the egg!!!
To unveiled the confusion that you caused let me put it this way :
I don't have a problem with jewish who don't support the occupation state of Israel ..
Is that clear enough for you now ?!!!
One other thing , If you do not know that Israel state was built on religious grounds then this is your problem not mine !!
For more than 50 years they have been looking for the "Temple of Solomon" ... unfortunately they did not find it yet !!!
Quote:
But you seem to think that by leaving out that first word, you're maintaining a completely political standpoint. Unfortunately, you aren't nearly as slick as you seem to believe.
Skipped ..
Quote:
Why don't you just stop pretending, and come right out and say that you'd like to eliminate Jews in that part of the world...
This is your opinion not mine ... Islam taught us that we only fear of Allah so believe me if this is my opinion I would not hesitate to say it loud & clear .
We follow the teachings of Islam & the holy Quran say :
((God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them )).
Based on this verse Allah commands us to treat all other religions with justice and love if they are not occupiers or declareing war on us because of our religion .
So please stop talking about something you obviously don't know anything about & also stop assuming anything on my behalf .
Quote:
or at least confine them to second-rate status, like they have in Syria?
Did you live there as a jew ?
It seems that you have a hobby to speak on behalf of others based on hypothetical basis

Last edited by squall-lionheart; 06-14-2011 at 06:24 AM..
 
Old 06-14-2011, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,349 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
You "expect to be accused?" You sure as hell shouldn't be surprised. Your real problem isn't with a State of Israel. Your real problem is with a Jewish State of Israel. But you seem to think that by leaving out that first word, you're maintaining a completely political standpoint. Unfortunately, you aren't nearly as slick as you seem to believe.

Why don't you just stop pretending, and come right out and say that you'd like to eliminate Jews in that part of the world...or at least confine them to second-rate status, like they have in Syria?



Quote:
you'd like to eliminate Jews in that part of the world

you are wrong, When we reject occupation and war and the inhuman treatment of the Palestinians is that's mean your eliminate!!!! so you as jews do not know the The difference between secular Zionism and the Jewish religion


Instead what is have Integrity and justice for reject what is happening The name of Judaism say this!!!
We must to face from wants killing us and we will not surrender to him

we will not go down without fight
Do you know of any nation accept a surrender of her killer so WHY WE ARE NO THEN !!!!!
 
Old 06-14-2011, 11:23 AM
 
Location: USA
19,745 posts, read 14,698,619 times
Reputation: 12744
I don't know why they would be so emotional compared with all of the religons that were there before them. Islam is relatively new compared to the other religions of the world. The rest of the Muslim countries in the middle east are only where they are at because the Western powers carved them up after WW1 and 2 and before then the Ottomans and before them xxxx.
 
Old 06-14-2011, 11:45 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,426,292 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post
you are wrong, When we reject occupation and war and the inhuman treatment of the Palestinians is that's mean your eliminate!!!! so you as jews do not know the The difference between secular Zionism and the Jewish religion


Instead what is have Integrity and justice for reject what is happening The name of Judaism say this!!!
We must to face from wants killing us and we will not surrender to him

we will not go down without fight
Do you know of any nation accept a surrender of her killer so WHY WE ARE NO THEN !!!!!

The Palestinians and Arab nations started the war.....

Israel has been in a state of war since the Arabs started the war...

Palestinians have had several chances to be a state and have walked away each time.

Judaism and zionism are not the same....

Judaism is the "religion, philosophy, and way of life" of the Jewish people.[1] Originating in the Hebrew Bible (also known as the Tanakh) and explored in later texts such as the Talmud, it is considered by Jews to be the expression of the covenantal relationship God developed with the Children of Israel. According to traditional Rabbinic Judaism, God revealed his laws and commandments to Moses on Mount Sinai in the form of both the Written and Oral Torah.[2]

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland.[1] Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to advocate on behalf of the Jewish state and address threats to its continued existence and security.

So fighting instead of peace and a state is more important?
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