Maryland a southern state (Baltimore, Columbia: doctorate, retiree, demographics)

[js9494]

The majority of the population of this small state lives in the dc Baltimore corridor were the pace and congestion is probobly secoń to NYC on the east coast

[andrew_s]

Originally Posted by cpterp

I agree that politics is not a black and white issue when looking at regional trends, but the general brand of Annapolis politics and the way most citizens vote in national elections definitely aligns the state more with the North (which is heavily liberal) than the South (which is heavily conservative). (Of course individuals with varyious political views on both sides of the spectrum live in every state in this country. There are probably communists living in Garrett County and fascists in Montgomery right now.)

There is no Southern state that leans nearly as far to the left as Maryland does (DC and DE being considered Northern). Montgomery and Prince George's are two of the most liberal counties in the nation. Baltimore city is also very heavily Democratic.

That said there is no fixed political template for every state in a region. Pennsylvania, for example, is almost as conservative as Virginia. New Hampshire is libertarian, Vermont is heavily independent, West Virginia is very socially conservative but Democrats tend to do well there, etc. Maryland Democrats also aren't the ultra-liberal West Coast/Massachusetts types either, which is one of the reasons gay marriage barely passed in the House. Still Maryland is heavily blue, a trait generally associated with the Northeastern states (as red is with the South).

MD, VA, NC, and FL were all blue states. I guess that means they aren't southern too. It s a different south commonly referred to as the new south and things like the solid south are long gone. Politically the south is like a lot of other states and divided. Plus using clear cut things like red and blue states is pretty bad as MD in very close to 50/50 yet everyone
always labels us a a hotbed for liberal politics. Last I check that was pretty even and defies the idea.

Originally Posted by js9494

The majority of the population of this small state lives in the dc Baltimore corridor were the pace and congestion is probobly secoń to NYC on the east coast

VA and MD have bad traffic in a certain area how is this not southern? I guess other southern metro areas don't have traffic???

[GoPhils]

Well almost everyone would agree that Northern Virginia isn't really southern either. After all, Southern MD and the lower Eastern Shore are further south than "NoVA."

And while Northern Virginia is the most populous area of VA, according to wikipedia it's population is only a third of the state. According to this http://www.baltwashchamber.org/about-us/ 46% of Maryland lives in Howard, Anne Arundel, PG and Montgomery Counties, and that's not even counting other areas like Frederick, Baltimore City/County which for the most part aren't really southern either. And Northern Virginia is only one corner of a larger state. Baltimore is pretty much right in the middle of a smaller state.

Even so, haven't people even argued if the whole state of Virginia should be considered southern too? After all it is usually included in most definitions of the Mid-Atlantic as well.

[Uptkid]

Baltimore looks like a true blue northeastern city.

[MDguy99]

Originally Posted by GoPhils

Well almost everyone would agree that Northern Virginia isn't really southern either. After all, Southern MD and the lower Eastern Shore are further south than "NoVA."

And while Northern Virginia is the most populous area of VA, according to wikipedia it's population is only a third of the state. According to this http://www.baltwashchamber.org/about-us/ 46% of Maryland lives in Howard, Anne Arundel, PG and Montgomery Counties, and that's not even counting other areas like Frederick, Baltimore City/County which for the most part aren't really southern either. And Northern Virginia is only one corner of a larger state. Baltimore is pretty much right in the middle of a smaller state.

Even so, haven't people even argued if the whole state of Virginia should be considered southern too? After all it is usually included in most definitions of the Mid-Atlantic as well.

Take a horizontal line from Crisfield, MD in Somerset county and draw it West through Virginia. Everything above this line could pass for a close replica of the State of Maryland (minus Baltimore of course). This is Mid-Atlantic Virginia - featuring some Southern areas, some Mid-Atlantic ones, and a few "Northern" suburbs... you've got DC suburbia, Chesapeake rural, Appalachia. This closely echoes MD in my opinion. Below that line, more similarities exist with NC and Tennessee.

[KodeBlue]

Originally Posted by MDguy99

Take a horizontal line from Crisfield, MD in Somerset county and draw it West through Virginia. Everything above this line could pass for a close replica of the State of Maryland (minus Baltimore of course). This is Mid-Atlantic Virginia - featuring some Southern areas, some Mid-Atlantic ones, and a few "Northern" suburbs... you've got DC suburbia, Chesapeake rural, Appalachia. This closely echoes MD in my opinion. Below that line, more similarities exist with NC and Tennessee.

Draw another line from Baltimore to the Atlantic Ocean.....it would cut right thru Atlantic City, NJ. Is South jersey southern as well?

[MDguy99]

Originally Posted by KodeBlue

Draw another line from Baltimore to the Atlantic Ocean.....it would cut right thru Atlantic City, NJ. Is South jersey southern as well?

.... ?

I never said Baltimore was Southern.

Re-read my post. Slowly. Carefully. Multiple times if need be.

[KodeBlue]

Originally Posted by MDguy99

.... ?

I never said Baltimore was Southern.

Re-read my post. Slowly. Carefully. Multiple times if need be.

......?
When did I say that you said Baltimore was southern? I just asked a question about NJ. However, you did claim that places such as Essex, dundalk had southern traits, I'm asking since almost 1/3 of NJ is below Baltimore (and Cape May is due east of DC), do you think southern NJ exhibit southern traits?

[MDguy99]

Originally Posted by KodeBlue

......?
When did I say that you said Baltimore was southern? I just asked a question about NJ. However, you did claim that places such as Essex, dundalk had southern traits, I'm asking since almost 1/3 of NJ is below Baltimore (and Cape May is due east of DC), do you think southern NJ exhibit southern traits?

Sigh. I was making a point about Virginia. Not about a line, but essentially cutting the state of VA in two and where you would do that and that the product of that would essentially be a "Mid-Atlantic" Virginia that would be akin to a second Maryland without Baltimore.

Essex and Dundalk do have some Southern traits, yes. Why would that carry over to NJ? Southern geography and traits do not go in a straight line. The climate is different in Southeastern Baltimore County because of geography of the Bay, and proximity to Baltimore (an urban heat-zone). Culturally, NJ doesn't have a Southern history. Eastern Baltimore County does (i.e.- Bowleys Quarters [named for Daniel Bowley's slave quarters). So, no, I do not believe Southern traits are in South Jersey because they never had a Southern past to begin with and the entire state of Maryland did, especially some sections of Southeastern/ Eastern Baltimore County. Today, Central Maryland is Mid-Atlantic, as is South Jersey, but funny thing is, the present day Southern areas of Maryland are exactly south of the southern tip of NJ, so you are right in a way that it can be used as a general gauge.

Fun fact: Essex, Dundalk, Middle River are all further south than the Northernmost tip of Virginia... which is, in turn further north than the Southernmost tip of NJ.

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by andrew_s

MD, VA, NC, and FL were all blue states. I guess that means they aren't southern too. It s a different south commonly referred to as the new south and things like the solid south are long gone. Politically the south is like a lot of other states and divided. Plus using clear cut things like red and blue states is pretty bad as MD in very close to 50/50 yet everyone
always labels us a a hotbed for liberal politics. Last I check that was pretty even and defies the idea.

VA, NC, FL are blue states??? Wow. If in fact you mean they all voted for president Obama in 2008, that is correct. Still, I assure you that in no way, shape, or form are/were those states "blue," at least not in the general way the term is used. If anything they could be considered "purple" or swing states, like a number of the midwestern states and PA. As far as political balances in their respective state houses/senates and US House/Senate delegation, all three are nearly solidly Republican in each category except a few which are split. Virginia's two Dem. senators being the exception. As I mentioned in my post, I agree that it isn't clear cut red/blue.

Also, Maryland is not a 50/50 state. 56% of registered voters in Maryland identify themselves as Democrats compared to 27% of Republicans. Democrats dominate both houses in Annapolis, and the US congressional delegation is 8:2 (soon to be 9:1, sorry Bartlett) Democrat:Republican.

Maryland (and Delaware) was never truly part of the "solid south," at least not when the "solid blue" turned to "solid red" during the civil rights era (after which the only dems to win in the South were Southerners Carter and Clinton). MD/DE have long been heavily Democratic states.