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Old 05-01-2010, 02:49 PM
 
Location: West Omaha
1,181 posts, read 3,650,851 times
Reputation: 477

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I think that's easy to say when its not you who is unable to "do what they want." Moreover, the whole idea that they need to have a "request considered" is a bit jaw droppingly arrogant. Who have they "requested" this from? You? Me? The State? The Courts? The Fed?

I just have a feeling that you might have a different opinion if you were gay and unable to marry the person of your choice.

I think at least attempting to empathize might help some realize the importance of this issue to those who have to deal with it.
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:56 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,284,991 times
Reputation: 2880
Churches and other religious institutions (see, not everyone is a christian ) have always had the inalienable right to do or not do as they wish within reason i.e. no human sacrifice or sex trafficking.

The Catholic church does not have to ordain women inspite of the many groups out there demanding that they do. The Catholic church does not have to marry or baptise anyone that they do not want to. I know of people who have been denied marriage in the church because the fiancee was not catholic, as well as babies not being allowed to be baptised because the parent's lifestyle was such that it was incompatible with catholic doctrine (she popped out a baby with every guy she dated with no intention of marriage or the ability to support herself or her brood).

No - churches and temples and mosques and tree shaded glens will not be forced to marry gays. It would be a legal right not a religious one. Whats so hard to understand about that?

Plus I find it amusing that those that argue that gay marriage is moot because wills can be written and power of attorney can be granted and those are sacrosanct yet worry that gays will overrun christianity if given the chance. Paranoia runs both ways, my friends......
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Old 05-01-2010, 05:15 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,159,877 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Churches and other religious institutions (see, not everyone is a christian ) have always had the inalienable right to do or not do as they wish within reason i.e. no human sacrifice or sex trafficking.

The Catholic church does not have to ordain women inspite of the many groups out there demanding that they do. The Catholic church does not have to marry or baptise anyone that they do not want to. I know of people who have been denied marriage in the church because the fiancee was not catholic, as well as babies not being allowed to be baptised because the parent's lifestyle was such that it was incompatible with catholic doctrine (she popped out a baby with every guy she dated with no intention of marriage or the ability to support herself or her brood).

No - churches and temples and mosques and tree shaded glens will not be forced to marry gays. It would be a legal right not a religious one. Whats so hard to understand about that?

Plus I find it amusing that those that argue that gay marriage is moot because wills can be written and power of attorney can be granted and those are sacrosanct yet worry that gays will overrun christianity if given the chance. Paranoia runs both ways, my friends......
You might want to try NOT putting words in people's mouths.
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Old 05-01-2010, 06:27 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,284,991 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
You might want to try NOT putting words in people's mouths.
That is true -- sorry about that.


I had thought that you didn't think gay marriage necessary because power of attorney would take care of any rights given by the institution of marriage i.e. hospital visitation, inheiritance, etc. I also thought you dismissed the fear of gay people that such directives would/could be ignored as paranoid. Yet you think that by allowing civil marriage you fear that gays will force various religions to perform the ceremonies. Or did I completely get that wrong? Very possible on a Saturday!


Is it the word 'marriage' that you don't like? Would calling it a 'civil union' make it more palatable? I usually don't care for the whole 'seperate but equal' idea for anything or anyone (usually because it rarely is equal) but in this case perhaps this could be were we all find common ground.


I think that marriage is a bedrock of civilization and promoting among straight and gay couples could only be a good thing. Less promiscuity, less children raised without a stable two parent household. Less poverty.
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:08 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,159,877 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
That is true -- sorry about that.

I had thought that you didn't think gay marriage necessary because power of attorney would take care of any rights given by the institution of marriage i.e. hospital visitation, inheiritance, etc. I also thought you dismissed the fear of gay people that such directives would/could be ignored as paranoid. Yet you think that by allowing civil marriage you fear that gays will force various religions to perform the ceremonies. Or did I completely get that wrong? Very possible on a Saturday!

Is it the word 'marriage' that you don't like? Would calling it a 'civil union' make it more palatable? I usually don't care for the whole 'seperate but equal' idea for anything or anyone (usually because it rarely is equal) but in this case perhaps this could be were we all find common ground.

I think that marriage is a bedrock of civilization and promoting among straight and gay couples could only be a good thing. Less promiscuity, less children raised without a stable two parent household. Less poverty.
Actually I'm somewhat ambivalent about the whole gay marriage/civil union/whatever debate. Not strongly for or against same-sex marriage and/or civil unions.

Frankly though, I get really tired of all the hyperbole and lying. This claim that hospitals won't allow gays visitation rights... Total BS. The idea that gays cannot pass anything on to partners after they die? Total BS. It won't happen if they don't do their wills correctly, but that's the case with anybody.

The result of the hyperbole & lying is the exact same as the boy that cried wolf. When something seriously discriminatory and/or damaging really does happen, people are saying, "Yeah sure, whatever..." I think that's what a lot of gays don't understand.
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Western Nebraskansas
2,707 posts, read 5,355,727 times
Reputation: 2410
Just because it SHOULDN'T doesn't mean it DOESN'T.
It's not at all hard to find a judge to side with parents who really don't like their son's gay partner...

It's easy for you to call it BS. It's not affecting you.
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:30 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,159,877 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsMeFred View Post
Just because it SHOULDN'T doesn't mean it DOESN'T.
It's not at all hard to find a judge to side with parents who really don't like their son's gay partner...

It's easy for you to call it BS. It's not affecting you.
And it's extremely easy to make claims and level accusations - regardless of whether or not they're true.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:40 PM
 
1,054 posts, read 1,833,125 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Actually I'm somewhat ambivalent about the whole gay marriage/civil union/whatever debate. Not strongly for or against same-sex marriage and/or civil unions.

Frankly though, I get really tired of all the hyperbole and lying. This claim that hospitals won't allow gays visitation rights... Total BS. The idea that gays cannot pass anything on to partners after they die? Total BS. It won't happen if they don't do their wills correctly, but that's the case with anybody.

The result of the hyperbole & lying is the exact same as the boy that cried wolf. When something seriously discriminatory and/or damaging really does happen, people are saying, "Yeah sure, whatever..." I think that's what a lot of gays don't understand.
I know it is hard to believe, but it is true.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:44 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,159,877 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahahonors View Post
I know it is hard to believe, but it is true.
WHAT is true? That gays are not allowed to visit people in hospitals? I can assure you, without question, that that is complete and total BS. Anybody - and I do mean ANYBODY - can go up to the information counter and ask for the room number of a patient. They will give it to you. Period.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Northeast NE
696 posts, read 1,498,698 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
WHAT is true? That gays are not allowed to visit people in hospitals? I can assure you, without question, that that is complete and total BS. Anybody - and I do mean ANYBODY - can go up to the information counter and ask for the room number of a patient. They will give it to you. Period.

There has been (I don't know if this info is current) situations when the patient has a serious enough condition where the hospital will only allow immediate family members to visit.
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