First Date Payment System (alcohol, like, using, money)
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Really? I don't think that her system sounds rigid at all. It doesn't even sound like a system, honestly. She either accepts someone paying for her or she pays her share. I'm not sure what is rigid or even system-like about this...
Quite frankly, I think it's the statements like this that are throwing UC18 through loops. It had me scratching my head, too, since she seems to be saying two different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Like Sugar
A woman is not in a situation where she needs to pay for a date because it's not hard to find a man who will treat her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Like Sugar
Not paying for first dates only affects men's dating results.
These statements come across as entitled. I would personally never want to go out with a woman who thinks this way. It sounds too much like she's taunting men, as in "haha, I can do whatever I want with you and I'll always have other men lined up for me". That's a terrible attitude to have. Think of it in the same terms as an employer telling people, "haha, I can treat you any way I want and pay you as little as I want and I'll always have people wanting to work for me even if you don't". Does that sound like an employer you'd want to work for? Not me.
But at the same time, Sweet Like Sugar has responded to me specifically saying that she is always willing to pay for her half of the check (especially with OLDs) and/or keep the first dates cheap. That is very reasonable compared to the statements above.
I agree with her responses to me, but not so much the responses above that she gave to other posters. Those sound kind of bourgie to me.
Quite frankly, I think it's the statements like this that are throwing UC18 through loops. It had me scratching my head, too, since she seems to be saying two different things.
These statements come across as entitled. I would personally never want to go out with a woman who thinks this way. It sounds too much like she's taunting men, as in "haha, I can do whatever I want with you and I'll always have other men lined up for me". That's a terrible attitude to have. Think of it in the same terms as an employer telling people, "haha, I can treat you any way I want and pay you as little as I want and I'll always have people wanting to work for me." Does that sound like an employer you'd want to work for? Not me.
But at the same time, Sweet Like Sugar has responded to me specifically saying that she is always willing to pay for her half of the check (especially with OLDs) and/or keep the first dates cheap. That is very reasonable compared to the statements above.
I agree with her responses to me, but not so much the responses above that she gave to other posters. Those sound kind of bourgie to me.
But those statements aren't expressing her personal beliefs - just facts, if that makes sense.
But those statements aren't expressing her personal beliefs - just facts, if that makes sense.
Fact or not (that's debatable), it's kind of pretentious and huge turn off for good men who are looking. It's trying to convey the idea that women have complete and utter control over the dating scene, and they clearly do not. There are just as many women here, or more, complaining about their inability to find a good man as there are men complaining about finding a good woman.
I mean, you women say it yourself all the time to the men who constantly complain here about not being able to date. Women aren't all about what you can buy for them, blah, blah, blah. This goes completely against that same reasoning you use to shun men who use that as their argument.
So which is it? Are those men full of ****, or are you in telling them otherwise?
Fact or not (that's debatable), it's kind of pretentious and huge turn off for good men who are looking. It's trying to convey the idea that women have complete and utter control over the dating scene, and they clearly do not. There are just as many women here, or more, complaining about their inability to find a good man as there are men complaining about finding a good woman.
I mean, you women say it yourself all the time to the men who constantly complain here about not being able to date. Women aren't all about what you can buy for them, blah, blah, blah. This goes completely against that same reasoning you use to shun men who use that as their argument.
So which is it?
Her stating that there are plenty of men who will pay for dates and that not paying more than their own share of a date is not going to lose a woman a relationship isn't pretentious or entitled. There ARE plenty of men who will pay for dates and most men are not going to be expecting the woman to pay for the entire date if the man is the one that asked them out. And again, she is not saying that this is how she wants things to be - simply that this is how things are. She says that she either accepts his offer or pays her share. THAT is her personal view.
I'm going to be honest her - when you say things like "you women" - it makes me not listen to you. I'm not "you women." If you want to have a conversation with me about these things - that's great. But you aren't "you men" and I'm not "you women." I'm one woman with my own thoughts and feelings - not someone to be talked at like that.
My personal feeling is that, if I were single, I wouldn't date anyone that had major hang ups over who pays for the date. It was never an issue when I was dating and I can't imagine it ever being an issue with anyone who is socially well adjusted.
Her stating that there are plenty of men who will pay for dates and that not paying more than their own share of a date is not going to lose a woman a relationship isn't pretentious or entitled. There ARE plenty of men who will pay for dates and most men are not going to be expecting the woman to pay for the entire date if the man is the one that asked them out. And again, she is not saying that this is how she wants things to be - simply that this is how things are. She says that she either accepts his offer or pays her share. THAT is her personal view.
This is not exactly how it was presented before. At least not in my interpretation.
The way it was stated before made it seem like men should always pay for dates and if he didn't want to pay for dates, then the woman would find a man who would pay for dates because they're lined up around the corner. That's the way it came across and that just sounds classless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdroplet76
I'm going to be honest her - when you say things like "you women" - it makes me not listen to you. I'm not "you women." If you want to have a conversation with me about these things - that's great. But you aren't "you men" and I'm not "you women." I'm one woman with my own thoughts and feelings - not someone to be talked at like that.
You know what I meant. It's the common mantra shared by many of the women who criticize the men who come here with their dating issues. Let's not get all sensitive and PC about this for the sake of making me look like a misogynistic bad guy. It is what it is and it's been said numerous times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdroplet76
My personal feeling is that, if I were single, I wouldn't date anyone that had major hang ups over who pays for the date. It was never an issue when I was dating and I can't imagine it ever being an issue with anyone who is socially well adjusted.
With first dates especially, it should not be an issue whatsoever. That's because your first date should be something cheap and low key. You don't know this person (especially in the case of OLD), there's no point in spending a lot of money on them on a first date. Later on however, me and most guys I know are going to walk away from a girl who continuously expects to be taken out on dates and never offers to pay. That's the only other point I would add.
This is not exactly how it was presented before. At least not in my interpretation.
The way it was stated before made it seem like men should always pay for dates and if he didn't want to pay for dates, then the woman would find a man who would pay for dates because they're lined up around the corner. That's the way it came across and that just sounds classless.
You interpreted it differently than I did.
Quote:
You know what I meant. It's the common mantra shared by many of the women who criticize the men who come here with their dating issues. Let's not get all sensitive and PC about this for the sake of making me look like a misogynistic bad guy. It is what it is and it's been said numerous times.
I will tell you again, if you are having a conversation with me, you will lose me when you say "you women." I'm not trying to make you look like anything - I'm letting you know how you are making yourself look when you say things like that.
Quote:
With first dates especially, it should not be an issue whatsoever. That's because your first date should be something cheap and low key. You don't know this person (especially in the case of OLD), there's no point in spending a lot of money on them on a first date. Later on however, me and most guys I know are going to walk away from a girl who continuously expects to be taken out on dates and never offers to pay. That's the only other point I would add.
Who pays for anything was never an issue in any of my relationships - and if I were dating again, if it became an issue, we would probably not be a good match.
Who pays for anything was never an issue in any of my relationships - and if I were dating again, if it became an issue, we would probably not be a good match.
And I'm guessing you probably not only offered to pay from time to time, but you probably did pay and take him out from time to time.
That is completely different than the girl who expects that a man should pay for everything for her, and threatens to leave if he does not. That's kind of how Sweet Like Sugar's earlier posts came across to me. Those were what I did not agree with. Women in my generation are making as much or more than many men. Why the heck would any of us think that they need to be taken care of entirely like they were in the 60s or prior years when they actually did need to be taken care of because they were mostly stay at home moms/wives? Heck, most of the women need to be taking us men out since they are the primary breadwinners.
And I'm guessing you probably not only offered to pay from time to time, but you probably did pay and take him out from time to time.
That is completely different than the girl who expects that a man should pay for everything for her, and threatens to leave if he does not. That's kind of how Sweet Like Sugar's earlier posts came across to me. Those were what I did not agree with. Women in my generation are making as much or more than many men. Why the heck would any of us think that they need to be taken care of entirely like they were in the 60s or prior years when they actually did need to be taken care of because they were mostly stay at home moms/wives?
The ideas that you think Sweet Like Sugar is expressing are just as distasteful to me as the ideas that you are expressing, to be honest with you. The men I dated were happy to date me. We did nice things for each other because we wanted to make each other feel special. We didn't have chips on our shoulders about these things. I never had "equality" thrown in my face and I never threw anything in my dates' faces either.
And I'm guessing you probably not only offered to pay from time to time, but you probably did pay and take him out from time to time.
That is completely different than the girl who expects that a man should pay for everything for her, and threatens to leave if he does not. That's kind of how Sweet Like Sugar's earlier posts came across to me. Those were what I did not agree with. Women in my generation are making as much or more than many men. Why the heck would any of us think that they need to be taken care of entirely like they were in the 60s or prior years when they actually did need to be taken care of because they were mostly stay at home moms/wives? Heck, most of the women need to be taking us men out since they are the primary breadwinners.
That's just the way it is. Do you want to get laid? If so, then you will open up your wallet. If you don't want to pay then you would have to go to Sweden, Iceland, or one of the countries where there is more egalitarianism.
The ideas that you think Sweet Like Sugar is expressing are just as distasteful to me as the ideas that you are expressing, to be honest with you. The men I dated were happy to date me. We did nice things for each other because we wanted to make each other feel special. We didn't have chips on our shoulders about these things. I never had "equality" thrown in my face and I never threw anything in my dates' faces either.
I offer to pay every time I go out with anyone.
Quite frankly, I don't think we're in disagreement outside your distaste for my using the phrase "you women". I apologize if you are offended by that. I was just trying to express a common mantra that is floated around here by (mostly) women.
If you offer to pay and don't expect the man to pay for everything (or you'll leave him), then I don't really understand where there is a rift in our thinking. Like you said, you (the man AND the woman) do things to make the other person feel special because you really like them. Period.
The situation I was speaking out about has nothing to do with this. It's about those women who feel like they're entitled to certain things because they are a woman. Trust me, I've met women like this. A girl who was dating my friend once told us, "This guy didn't take me out to dinner enough. I drive a Lincoln though! Who does he think he's dating?!?! Some low class *****?" That's what I'm talking about. Those entitled women are disgusting.
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