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Old 04-11-2012, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,743,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
....soccer fans in this very forum and from discussions i've heard in real life argue who the greatest soccer player is mainly by goals scored.
but you're telling me goal scoring isn't the determining factor... sure thing buddy.
JD47J is going on and on about how many goals messi has scored and goal scoring records he's broken... but you're saying it ISN'T about goal scoring.

Sure.
Because it is a single variable among many. It is the easiest to use in the sport so people use it but I disagree with it. Sure, it is worth a mention but using that is a loan variable is inaccurate and if you do, you have no understanding of the sport.

 
Old 04-11-2012, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,743,505 times
Reputation: 2806
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
LOL ok you're going to tell me basketball fans don't argue who the greatest nba player is based on championships.. or who the greatest QB is based on championships. because they weren't just comparing Tom Brady to Joe Montana BASED ON SUPERBOWL TITLES.

log off for a half hour.
Yes, they do and it is horrible. A team wins a championship in those sports. It takes a team to win. It doesnt matter how great a single player is, unless they have a championship caliber team surrounding them, they arent winning anything. Therefor, you cannot use that as a variable when comparing players.
 
Old 04-11-2012, 12:41 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 1,307,235 times
Reputation: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post

that is the difference between soccer fans and fans of other sports.
hockey, baseball, basketball, football, golf, cycling, tennis.. fans of these sports expect athletes to WIN in the biggest stages of their sports. they would never crown anyone 'the greatest' if they won NOTHING in the biggest stage.
and the 'greatest' in soccer = has won nothing and will probably retire without winning a world cup title
Are you dumb. Messi has won everything except the world cup. As I said before the European Cup is the biggest thing you can win at club level. Messi will win it at least another 5 times. He can win the world cup in 2014. Its the world cup. There are harder teams in it. Pele was fortunate to be in the best Brazilian squad of all time which would of won the world cup without him. You clearly know nothing of football.
 
Old 04-11-2012, 12:44 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,888,899 times
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wait so first you say players in those sports AREN'T compared by their championships, then you say they are. which is it?

all athletes are compared and judged on their winning. in every sport. but as you said, soccer is different, and that's why messi can be considered the greatest despite having ZERO world cup championships. that can't happen in hockey or basketball, or football, tennis, golf, baseball etc.


which is what i initially said about the reasons Americans don't like soccer.

it is a simple fact that we like winners. We like to see athletes perform in the biggest stage. Americans can't embrace a player as hyped up as messi, who scores goals in europe with what appears very little effort because it comes so easy to him, then goes to the world cup and doesnt score at all.
 
Old 04-11-2012, 12:46 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 1,307,235 times
Reputation: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
....soccer fans in this very forum and from discussions i've heard in real life argue who the greatest soccer player is mainly by goals scored.
but you're telling me goal scoring isn't the determining factor... sure thing buddy.
JD47J is going on and on about how many goals messi has scored and goal scoring records he's broken... but you're saying it ISN'T about goal scoring.

Sure.

Its not just about goalscoring. That is a big factor in it but its also about assist's, skill, pace, vision and most of all its about how you read the game. Messi has all of those factors on his side and once again on the world cup thing he is only 24.
 
Old 04-11-2012, 12:47 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,888,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD47john View Post
Are you dumb. Messi has won everything except the world cup. As I said before the European Cup is the biggest thing you can win at club level. Messi will win it at least another 5 times. He can win the world cup in 2014. Its the world cup. There are harder teams in it. Pele was fortunate to be in the best Brazilian squad of all time which would of won the world cup without him. You clearly know nothing of football.

this is the equivalent of saying an nba player has won everything except an NBA title.. which in the end means nothing.

the world cup remains the biggest championship in soccer. why are you still typing? oh yea because you think the euro league titles are bigger than the world cup.
 
Old 04-11-2012, 12:49 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 1,307,235 times
Reputation: 288
So did you watch the video above expect. Well did you. That is strength for you.
 
Old 04-11-2012, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Scotland
7,972 posts, read 10,087,185 times
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People that actually know their football will agree messi is on another planet and I feel privileged to watch him thats how amazing he is.

people that don't know football shouldn't say otherwise, thats like me telling you who is good at basketball.
 
Old 04-11-2012, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,743,505 times
Reputation: 2806
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
wait so first you say players in those sports AREN'T compared by their championships, then you say they are. which is it?
Some people do, some people dont. I strongly disagree with it because it insults the very essence of the team spirit of the game. If you have ever played on a team, you would understand this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
all athletes are compared and judged on their winning. in every sport. but as you said, soccer is different, and that's why messi can be considered the greatest despite having ZERO world cup championships. that can't happen in hockey or basketball, or football, tennis, golf, baseball etc.
So Barry Sanders is considered one of the greatest despite not winning anything? What about Dan Marino?

I can name tons of players in all sports that are considered among the greatest that never experienced a championship.




Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
it is a simple fact that we like winners. We like to see athletes perform in the biggest stage. Americans can't embrace a player as hyped up as messi, who scores goals in europe with what appears very little effort because it comes so easy to him, then goes to the world cup and doesnt score at all.
You do understand that Messi's role at Barca is different than his role on his national team, right? That soccer is a very tactical game and the tactics in the club game and international game as different?

What about defenders? Do you think they cant be great if they didnt score in the World Cup? What about a defensive midfielder or a holding midfielder?
 
Old 04-11-2012, 12:52 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,888,899 times
Reputation: 1228
JD47 i never said anything about messi's dribbling.. in fact i think i pointed that out specifically in my first post here.

but you're on acid if you think that is a sign of "strength"... good grief.. are you serious.. that is a sign of messi's outstanding dribbling. strength is bench pressing 427lbs.. strength is breaking actual tackles, not what they call 'tackles' in soccer.. but actually using ur hands and body to bring down a man... and breaking that tackle.

its a good video though i like the song
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