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Just a tiny amount of heroin never hurt or small snort of meth is bad either?
The thing about it is that there are a number of foods that have a tiny amount of alcohol in them and there are foods that have tiny amounts of nicotine in them. Orange juice has a tiny amount of alcohol.
So technically speaking it is a sin to drink orange juice. In fact I'm sinning now by eating a banana. And it's even a worse sin because the banana is pretty ripe (more alcohol).
How do the teetotalers explain Jesus' miracle at Cana where he turned the water into wine?
The master of the banquet's reaction in verses 9-10 (John 2) makes absolutely no sense if Jesus was just making grape juice.
Good wine vs not so good wine is simple if you have a little knowledge about storage sensitivity of juices. Microbial and chemical reactions occur when storage is lacking for a day or so, that can quickly alter the taste, texture and aroma of any juice. Just try leaving grape juice out overnight, you will see.
So with the common knowledge of that, freshly pressed wine will be desired rather than some that has been kept at less than ideal temp and or sealed container. You should research the fascinating methods the greeks and romans had long before Jesus was born on how to seal containers of wine and how to prevent fermentation when they wanted to. Ancient people possessed a great deal of comprehension about fermentation, it is amazing.
An old shipwreck found had perfectly seal wine containers than had kept the wine for about 2000 years! That is incredible even compared to our modern day materials. I forgot what orgin the ship was, I might get back to you on that.
The thing about it is that there are a number of foods that have a tiny amount of alcohol in them and there are foods that have tiny amounts of nicotine in them. Orange juice has a tiny amount of alcohol.
So technically speaking it is a sin to drink orange juice. In fact I'm sinning now by eating a banana. And it's even a worse sin because the banana is pretty ripe (more alcohol).
The same thing about not eating blood from animals like they were told by God, technically one might still have a tiny bit of blood in a cooked steak of beef, i believe that principle would followed the best way man can follow it and the little bit that is in there is there simply from the best efforts. I get what you are saying, I accept it. My position is the negativity from alcohol is beyond any acceptable proportion to its positive aspects. It always does far more harm than it does good.
Health benefits according to doctors can be found in unfermented wine, or you can get the super healthy substance in pill form at Wal-Mart. Alcohol is a necessity in killing germs and the great use as a solvent in many, many different areas, i depend on it in woodworking for a variety of reasons, but the bad outweighs the good when drinking it. Paul said in 1 Cor. 8:13 that he would give up eating meat to save his fellow brothers in Christ from stumbling, that is agape love, do you have that same kind of love for your fellow man?
I don't believe you do know how I think, as you don't even seem to understand the basic moral principles that apply to the consumption of food, drink, and medicine.
That's between you and God, and does not give you the authority to make moral laws for the rest of us that God never did.
I have found that it is indeed possible for me to both consume alcohol and simultaneously not sin or lead others into sin.
Do you believe that we are advocating for drunkenness or driving in a state of intoxication? Because we're not...
By drinking or accepting drinking, you influence every single person in your pathway and whatever they end up doing, however terrible it is, you helped them get there.
You seem to not understand that it is the immoderate consumption/abuse that can lead to sin, and NOT the mere partaking of the substance in due moderation.
If YOU yourself cannot partake in moderation without sinning, then by all means YOU yourself should abstain.
Do you forbid dancing too, afraid of 'what it could lead too'??
I was good at holding my liquor, thats wasn't my problem I had, it is simply setting a bad example and influenced other who couldn't maintain themselves, that is why romans 14:21 is given to us.
I never went to a school dance, I wanted to but my faithful mother declined such a snare of the devil. She knew just like I do how enticing dancing can be. The devil is a deceptive being, a liar. He looks for every opportunity to trap us and dancing is a awesome way of accomplishing his goal. Lust doesn't have any moderation, thoughts of fornication isn't measured by degree either.
Life and nature are about moderation in the face of extremes (and that includes extremes in thinking).
Water is enormously important to life, but a barrage of it - as in the case of floods - can become deadly. Food provides sustenance, but tainted food can maim, and too much fattening foods can lead to coronary disease and death. Coolness can sooth and sustain, but too deep of cold can freeze and kill. Sunlight enables plant life, and in turn encourages oxygen, but too much sunlight on the skin can burn and lead to skin cancer. Even electricity; it can enable all types of luxuries and benefits to life, but too much (as in too much current) can kill.
One of the greatest aspects of Jesus and his teachings was a reflection of moderation and sensibility. We especially see the contrast with the foaming of the mouths of the religious and the powerful in his times, and all those who gave him trouble, hated him, and wanted him dead.
It's the tainted and lost church who has made an existence in teaching and promoting extremes, and is anti-Christ directly because of that. They are stumbling blocks to knowing Christ, and stumbling blocks to all who support them.
Romans 14:21 says not to do ANYTHING that cause another to stumble, that implies a lot, not just drinking and drugs. There must be love for your fellow man and consider what is their weaknesses and conform your life to helping them at all cost to help save their souls from hell. Christ had that love, Paul had that love, do you?
I was good at holding my liquor, thats wasn't my problem I had, it is simply setting a bad example and influenced other who couldn't maintain themselves, that is why romans 14:21 is given to us.
I never went to a school dance, I wanted to but my faithful mother declined such a snare of the devil. She knew just like I do how enticing dancing can be. The devil is a deceptive being, a liar. He looks for every opportunity to trap us and dancing is a awesome way of accomplishing his goal. Lust doesn't have any moderation, thoughts of fornication isn't measured by degree either.
1 Thess 5:22. Abstain from EVERY form of evil.
Oh, good grief. I bet you don't go to the beach where the girls are either. Afraid you might see a bit of cleavage and lose control.
I was good at holding my liquor, thats wasn't my problem I had, it is simply setting a bad example and influenced other who couldn't maintain themselves, that is why romans 14:21 is given to us.
I never went to a school dance, I wanted to but my faithful mother declined such a snare of the devil. She knew just like I do how enticing dancing can be. The devil is a deceptive being, a liar. He looks for every opportunity to trap us and dancing is a awesome way of accomplishing his goal. Lust doesn't have any moderation, thoughts of fornication isn't measured by degree either.
1 Thess 5:22. Abstain from EVERY form of evil.
::Sigh:: All this angst over what is and is not sin results from the mistaken notion that our sinfulness is determined by WHAT specific carnal or physical things we do or not do. But we are primarily Spiritual beings and what determines our sinfulness is the state of mind of our Spirit (consciousness). You are correct, Danny. We are to emulate the sacrifice that Jesus exemplified in His agape love for us all, including His love and forgiveness for His torturers and murderers. That means we are to restrain our selfishness and consider our impact on ALL who are involved with us at all times.
Lust, for example, is concerned entirely with our selfish sexual satisfaction, that is what makes it sinful. That is also what makes adultery a sinful state of mind, NOT because it is fornication, per se. It is because adulterers are driven entirely by lust. They disregard and have no consideration for their marriage vows, how it destroys trust, how it hurts their spouse, how it objectifies their consenting partner, or how it undermines the stability of their marriage.
However, lust in marriage is not a problem because the couples typically bring spiritual features to it. The main one being a certainty that God approves of their union, but NOT, as some believe, primarily because it might produce kids. The marriage itself provides cover for that eventuality. The lust is mitigated by a genuine love for their spouse, an encompassing concern for each other's welfare, and a desire for a unifying intimacy and closeness. That is what provides the cover for their underlying lust.
I never went to a school dance, I wanted to but my faithful mother declined such a snare of the devil. She knew just like I do how enticing dancing can be. The devil is a deceptive being, a liar. He looks for every opportunity to trap us and dancing is a awesome way of accomplishing his goal. Lust doesn't have any moderation, thoughts of fornication isn't measured by degree either. 1 Thess 5:22. Abstain from EVERY form of evil.
Obsessing about sin to the degree you do - while also doubting and worrying about much of God's creations - is a sin in itself. Even people the Old Testament sang and danced for God. There is not a single word from Jesus speaking out against dancing.
Face it, you're not living the teachings and life of Christ. You're living the obsessive and fearful ways of your parents and the environment of your youth. It doesn't matter how many times you've heard those things in church, and how many scriptures you've memorized that you think back up your points. They're still the same concepts from outside of what Jesus taught and lived by. You'd better off being honest with yourself and just completing the picture by creating your own religion. You're already most of the way there.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 07-01-2021 at 07:57 PM..
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