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As I said before, this is a button-pushing thread. All you have to do is take a good look at the opening post. Sometimes there's no way of trying to "win" such a discussion, and we can be more respectable and influential not chasing such matters. People have to account for their own thoughts and actions, and when their tone is deep, it's especially pointless trying to hammer in thoughts or concepts through the rock skull. And that goes in both directions; both sides. You could pray for them though.
There were times when even Jesus - with all his power and ability - sometimes just left people and moved on, such as when cities rejected him. That's a perfectly wise approach. We don't have to chase and debate each matter thrown before us. That's something more like what a dog would do, chasing after a ball or stick.
Good post!
The attack/defend mode is not of the Spirit and not what followers of Christ are set apart for
We are to judge all things, which is about the separation of concepts, ideas, motives, etc while clinging to that essential goodness attached to that distinctive faith we all share/have in common which unites us at the highest level ..... not at the lowest level
However I do see that Jesus came for both purposes of dividing and also of uniting and that is where timing comes, which we see mentioned from the beginning to end of Scripture
Says somebody proud to be in hell lol. Hell is the outer court of Gentiles where you choose to stand. You quoted Hebrews, let me quote Hebrews also, I mean if it's all true.
Hebrews 8
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
If Hebrews can be used as an authority, then why arent you in the new covenant?
Why do you even quote things written to Ephraim and Judah?
Those first Gentiles became Ephraim on their way to becoming Judah.
What does any of this have to do with you?
Are you claiming to be Ephraim or Judah?
Or is it that you replaced both?
I believe that you are again ignoring Ephesians 3:6 and taking it out of the equation.
Perhaps you ought to take some scissors and cut that verse out of your Bible...
Keeping in mind that there is a definitive punishment for doing such a thing (Revelation 22:18-19).
But since you have already done so in your heart, doing it physically (by cutting it out of your Bible) would only be an outward manifestation of what is already true in your heart.
And why is that true in your heart?
Because, apparently, you have an idea in your head that it is not right for Gentiles to even be saved.
Apparently you missed the memo in 1 John that tells us that God is love.
No, God did not fail to bring into His kingdom as many as would choose to receive Him as Lord and Saviour.
.
the scripture say He IS the saviour of the world, He IS the saviour of ALL MEN, you say He is not thus choosing your doctrine over the scriptures and making God and Jesus failures.
Quote:
Love did not fail to give every man a choice in this matter.
again your choice is not given you until regeneration, salvation is ALL of God you do not get to help Him. All you are doing is placing yourself along side God and saying see what we did together.
who is it that does the works of the flesh if it is not the old man nature?
Human beings do the works of the flesh.
At baptism is when we become a new man. That doesn't mean the "old man" is instantly mortified however.
You're speaking a nuanced language that I don't understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
it is not some kabbalistic secret mike and again if you would turn what you just said to your soul life you would begin to understand what I am saying. It is hard on our soul life, but the spirit rejoices as the soul life is being destroyed.
"Soul life"? We're not speaking the same language.
the scripture say He IS the saviour of the world, He IS the saviour of ALL MEN, you say He is not thus choosing your doctrine over the scriptures and making God and Jesus failures.
again your choice is not given you until regeneration, salvation is ALL of God you do not get to help Him. All you are doing is placing yourself along side God and saying see what we did together.
Jesus is the Saviour of all men...that is who He is; because He died to save mankind and His sacrifice was for the sins of the whole world. There is no one who cannot avail themselves of what Christ did for them on the Cross.
That being said, not everyone will avail themselves of what He did for them on the Cross; and those who don't, will not be saved.
It should be clear that in the English rendering of Matthew 25:46, there is everlasting punishment for some. Even Rose2Luv doesn't try to refute this.
So, how will all men be saved?
Which is a different thing from saying that Jesus is the Saviour of all men.
Also, as concerning your other contention,
It should be clear that if anyone confesses with their mouth the Lord Jesus, believing that God has raised Him from the dead, they shall be saved (Romans 10:9-10); and that "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans 10:13).
That appears to me to be a choice that is made by man.
And if the choice is not given until after regeneration, then the choice isn't necessary because the person has already been regenerated.
Why, then does the Bible even relate to us such verses as Romans 10:9-10 and Romans 10:13?
Last edited by justbyfaith; 08-12-2021 at 01:59 PM..
The attack/defend mode is not of the Spirit and not what followers of Christ are set apart for
We are to judge all things, which is about the separation of concepts, ideas, motives, etc while clinging to that essential goodness attached to that distinctive faith we all share/have in common which unites us at the highest level ..... not at the lowest level
not every discussion is attack/defend meer, we are to reason the scriptures with one another and you simply cannot do that without discussing the differences.
Your question is not really relevant to the topic at hand.
The dry bones are the people of Israel. They already belong to God by virtue of the covenant. The bones being dressed with flesh is not a picture of eternal salvation, but temporal salvation as it signifies their return to the Promised Land.
Christ had not yet come, so the gates of heaven had not yet been opened. Therefore, they had no access to eternal life at that point in time. They were all destined for Hades when they died, at least temporarily until the Harrowing of Hell, regardless of their standing with God.
not every discussion is attack/defend meer, we are to reason the scriptures with one another and you simply cannot do that without discussing the differences.
I know this
But we need to put forward the side of the mediator in the middle as well
The problem is not understanding the depth, height, breadth and that the Scriptures are not addressing the individual, it is the individuals who brings things to the table and there needs to be an understanding between the parties about their “purpose” otherwise it degrades into a “street brawl”
And of course you took my statement out of context.
It was meant to say that in order for heaven to truly be heavenly, there can be no sin there.
Therefore sin must be separated from all that is good in order for heaven to truly be heavenly.
If sin is not in heaven, where can it reside?
I'm pretty sure I didn't take you out of context. You said:
"Hell must be truly like hell so that heaven can truly be heavenly."
Even if you meant to say that heaven can't be heavenly until you kick out the sinners, it does not change the main point being made - that heaven is exclusive by its nature. There have to be outsiders - otherwise there can be no insiders. Without the screams of the damned there could be no music of the blessed.
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