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Old 11-13-2009, 09:53 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 14,895,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
This doesn't answer it, but yet only answer that Christ was sent from God...which is apparent throughout the scriptrue. This is a specific question regarding the attributes and characteristics of the Ancient of Days/God and Christ..Not to mention they are given equal titles throughout scripture but here their attributes, that is, what they look like...proclaiming they are the same....I will repost:

Dan 7:9-10 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Rev 1:14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire;

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength.

Rev 5:11-13 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (He is LORD)

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Take note of Daniel 7 and Rev 1

Answer it please.
Answered post #85, page 9 of this thread.
here: //www.city-data.com/forum/11608242-post85.html
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,856,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Curious....so when Jesus said, "I am" and the jews picked up stones to stone Him and said, we are stoning you because you claim to be God and Jesus said nothing to refute such blasphemy doesn't show Jesus as being God?
All Jesus said in this verse is that he existed before Abraham was born...this has nothing to do with him claiming to be GOD. You are familiar with Jewish thought that our souls are pre-existent aren't you?
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:39 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
30,464 posts, read 22,599,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
All Jesus said in this verse is that he existed before Abraham was born...this has nothing to do with him claiming to be GOD. You are familiar with Jewish thought that our souls are pre-existent aren't you?
You ignore the fact that the Jews attempted to stone Jesus because they understood that He said He was God. I suggest you go back to the material I have supplied in the posts on this thread and study the material. But that would presuppose the fact that you were even interested in the truth. You are not, and wish only to try to discredit the truth.
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,856,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You ignore the fact that the Jews attempted to stone Jesus because they understood that He said He was God. I suggest you go back to the material I have supplied in the posts on this thread and study the material. But that would presuppose the fact that you were even interested in the truth. You are not, and wish only to try to discredit the truth.
Where does it say that in scripture????


53"Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?"
54Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
55and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.
56"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
57So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

Giving your opinion or anyone elses opinion....that they wanted to stone him because he called himself God is pure speculation on your part or anyone elses who implies what the scripture says....nowhere does it say in scripture they wanted to stone him because he called himself God.
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 9,825,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
This doesn't answer it, but yet only answer that Christ was sent from God...which is apparent throughout the scriptrue. This is a specific question regarding the attributes and characteristics of the Ancient of Days/God and Christ..Not to mention they are given equal titles throughout scripture but here their attributes, that is, what they look like...proclaiming they are the same....
If your boss is the president of the company is he also the president of the USA? nope.. if you hold the same title and attributes of the president of the USA does that mean you are the president of the USA? nope. If the vice president can exercise the authority of the president does that mean he IS the president? I think you are confused. As to the rest of your post:

Quote:
I will repost:

Dan 7:9-10 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Doesn't this correspond to Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Notice that in Daniel the thrones are cast down (the thrones of Christ and the saints) and the Ancient of Days (God) sits down. Who judges and opens the books in Revelation? 20: 11-12 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Rev. 5:6-7 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.

Jesus takes the scroll from God who sits on the throne... God is the ancient of days.. not Jesus.

Quote:
Rev 1:14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire;
We see also in Revelation that the saints are given white robes. This all symbolizes purity.

Quote:
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength.
See in Eph. 6:17 that the sword is the word of God..."Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."

Therefore the sword of Jesus is the WORD of God.
Quote:
Rev 5:11-13 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
That last part you underlined: Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and

Do you not see that the one sitting on the throne and the Lamb are two different people? That God is on the throne and the Lamb is not?

Quote:
Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (He is LORD)
Again.. his thigh has the name of God written on it because he puts all things under him.. this is not saying that HE IS GOD but that he represents God on earth in authority for a time...
Eph. 1:22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,
and later:
1 Cor 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Ultimately God is all in all.. everything is once again subject to God even the Lamb...
Quote:
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Take note of Daniel 7 and Rev 1

Answer it please.
Sure.. it's like when the president goes into the hospital and gives his authority to the vice president for a time. Jesus is the High Priest, God is God. God gives authority to Jesus for a time.. then takes it back so he is all in all..

I am not sure why you cannot grasp this!
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
30,464 posts, read 22,599,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Where does it say that in scripture????


53"Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?"
54Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
55and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.
56"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
57So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

Giving your opinion or anyone elses opinion....that they wanted to stone him because he called himself God is pure speculation on your part or anyone elses who implies what the scripture says....nowhere does it say in scripture they wanted to stone him because he called himself God.


John 10:33 The Jews answered Him. ''For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.''
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,856,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
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John 10:33 The Jews answered Him. ''For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.''
This was not the scripture we were discussing now was it????

How about we show the entire scripture of the one you did post, instead of a just a little piece:

John 10:

24The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
26"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30"I and the Father are one."
31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." 39Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

Clearly in verse 36....Jesus tells them exactly who he is.....and he is not telling them he is GOD. Why is it so difficult for you to understand that Jesus was a human being, who attained perfection in his human life and became ONE WITH GOD as we are ALL supposed to do? This is what we are supposed to be doing...you do realize that don't you?
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:16 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,767,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post

Clearly in verse 36....Jesus tells them exactly who he is.....and he is not telling them he is GOD. Why is it so difficult for you to understand that Jesus was a human being, who attained perfection in his human life and became ONE WITH GOD as we are ALL supposed to do? This is what we are supposed to be doing...you do realize that don't you?
"I am"
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 9,825,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
"I am"
OMGoodness! Did fundamentalist just claim to be GOD? Look.. it matches what God said... "I am who I am"...

Heretic! Blasphemer... *throws fake internet stones at Fundy*
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:19 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
30,464 posts, read 22,599,417 times
Reputation: 14407
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
This was not the scripture we were discussing now was it????

How about we show the entire scripture of the one you did post, instead of a just a little piece:

John 10:

24The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
26"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30"I and the Father are one."
31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." 39Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

Clearly in verse 36....Jesus tells them exactly who he is.....and he is not telling them he is GOD. Why is it so difficult for you to understand that Jesus was a human being, who attained perfection in his human life and became ONE WITH GOD as we are ALL supposed to do? This is what we are supposed to be doing...you do realize that don't you?
You said nowhere in Scripture does it state that the Jews were attempting to stone Jesus because they thought that He was claiming to be God. I showed you where just a couple of chapters later the Jews were attempting to stone Jesus. And Why Were They Attempting to Stone Jesus? BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT JESUS WAS CLAIMING TO BE GOD. And the verse John 10:33 says that directly. ''BECAUSE YOU, BEING A MAN MAKE YOURSELF OUT TO BE GOD.

Because you refuse to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is both true humanity and eternal and infinite God, your entire understanding of God is skewed. You know nothing about God, you know nothing about His nature. I will tell you again. Go and study the material that has been provided, and learn the truth. But you are not going to do that. Therefore, lock yourself into your false beliefs ever more tightly so that you will never know the truth.
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