Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This mess is totally completely out-of-hand, whatever the initial Russian expectation. Somehow the pieces have to be put back together. No one should want Russia to become a pariah state groaning under sanctions. Or for any more lives to be lost, civilian or not.
You reap what you sow. Russians brought this on themselves.
Of course the buses exist (photos available on MSM). No one (quoted politicians) said the Russians weren't serious. There aren't any safe passages at this time. Not negotiated. Why wouldn't the roads into and from Mariupol be blocked? With ongoing firing. Trying to cross military lines is very dangerous.
I don't believe Russians would choose to kill civilians. That they sincerely want them out of the cities. Logistically it is also hard to fight effectively within cities, and perhaps the military did not fully appreciate they would reach that stage. There are reports the Russians are now actively recruiting Syrians who have recent expertise in street to street fighting.
This mess is totally completely out-of-hand, whatever the initial Russian expectation. Somehow the pieces have to be put back together. No one should want Russia to become a pariah state groaning under sanctions. Or for any more lives to be lost, civilian or not.
Erasure, I sense you are as distressed about this as others. Still the situation is not so much that the Russians are trying to SAVE civilian lives as they are trying not to TAKE civilian lives. That is a subtle but important distinction. (My bold of your text.)
But if buses are there, then obviously Russians are ready to cease fire and to take people out.
So it's not them but Zelensky government that doesn't allow the evacuation, and thus saving the lives of civilians.
Wouldn't this be the logical conclusion?
( OK, make it "not to take civilian lives" and yes, I am distressed by now. I picture myself in one of those cities. Particularly with children.)
why isn't there a continuous negotiation with daily updated demands and
offers for compromise ? it would make sense, IMO.
Put numbers to it.
Would sanctions be reduced if Russia partially withdraws from Ukraine ?
Make an offer ! Start the process.
You reap what you sow. Russians brought this on themselves.
Exactly? Did the Russians arrange this for themselves? Although, you're probably right.These stubborn Russian aborigines.they do not want to trade with the West in any way, giving away lands and resources for such wonderful glass beads and sweet promises that if they give even more, then someday the West may like them.. And even worse, they are also actively resisting. Nightmarish, terrible Russian aborigines.
Russians want civilians out of their way even for practical purpose.
They are pounding the Ukrainian troops as we speak, so they don't need any "treacheries" at this point.
With civilians gone, they can accomplish their job much faster, and Ukrainian government knows it.
And that's why it loves to keep civilians as the live shield.
It serves the double purpose of anti-Russian propaganda, and the hindrance of the Russian troops actions.
And the West is not calling them out on that one, all while lamenting about the "killed children."
Now keep this in mind.
What difference does that make!!! Russians shouldn't be bombing whether people are there or not!! Your argument is like somebody complaining that somebody they're hitting keeps moving their head out of the way!!
More like chukchi. I'm not sure what racial conclusions can be drawn from this, but russia seems the expert in Nazi terms so they should tell us. Maybe that if you look 70% white and 30% asian like Putin it's bad, who knows.
People migrated out of Ukraine, too, long before this started. All anyone needs to know?
Yes, it was a crappy place to live. That doesn't give the world's largest crap hole the right to invade it and commit mass murder, rape its women, kill its children, steal its land, destroy its property, and plunder private possessions.
More like chukchi. I'm not sure what racial conclusions can be drawn from this, but russia seems the expert in Nazi terms so they should tell us. Maybe that if you look 70% white and 30% asian like Putin it's bad, who knows.
Yes, and the Russian trolls here claim that the Ukrainian cities are untouched and the civilians are having a lively time, like they are on holiday now that they have been "liberated" by the noble Russian army. They post photos and videos from obscure sources that seem to justify these claims, but who knows where these places are and when the images were taken. It's not like it's another viewpoint, incrementally different, it's just totally divorced from reality.
Yes, it was a crappy place to live. That doesn't give the world's largest crap hole the right to invade it and commit mass murder, rape its women, kill its children, steal its land, destroy its property, and plunder private possessions.
Probably, this is why Russia had to intervene and remove this "hole" from Ukraine through a military operation.
Russians want civilians out of their way even for practical purpose.
They are pounding the Ukrainian troops as we speak, so they don't need any "treacheries" at this point.
With civilians gone, they can accomplish their job much faster, and Ukrainian government knows it.
And that's why it loves to keep civilians as the live shield.
It serves the double purpose of anti-Russian propaganda, and the hindrance of the Russian troops actions.
And the West is not calling them out on that one, all while lamenting about the "killed children."
Now keep this in mind.
The only job the Russians have is to get out of Ukraine. That's it. Leave or suffer an economic implosion at home while young Russian men are bleeding out on a foreign land. Or burning to death in their crappy tanks. The lucky ones get blown up or shot in the head for a quick death. They will never stop getting shot at while they occupy and plunder a foreign land.
Dig a little on the internet. You can find some videos of ungodly things happening on both sides. All this blood is on Putin's hands.
GET OUT OR DIE!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Russians shouldn't be bombing whether people are there or not!! 
