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German headlines about Merkel in Russia :
Merkel: verbrecherische und völkerrechtswidrige Annexion der Krim
(felonious annexation on Crimea violating the law of nations)
-------------------------------------
google news (Russia) first page search for "Merkel"
hmm,
BBC,NTV,Tass,NEWSru,glavpost,Dni.ru,Fakty.ua,Yoki. ru,Rosbalt,Deutsche Welle,
Daily.ua,Pronedra,Lenta.ru
I wonder whether that's just typical for Russian media or whether google did some
"selection" here
------------------
Results: Approximately 34,600
Better a day later than never
Herald - 13 hours. Ago
On Sunday, a day after the celebration of Victory Vladimir Putin received in
Moscow Angela Merkel. Chancellor of Germany in ...
Angela Merkel: Truce in Ukraine there is still no BBC Russian
Putin and Merkel exchanged their options for Moscow NTV.ru solutions ...
The dialogue took place: Putin and Merkel held talks BBC News
First Channel - Russian Tass news agency
Herald
Putin justified before Merkel Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact
NEWSru.com - 13 h. Ago
Merkel called him shortly concluded on illegal ... German Chancellor Angela Merkel,
speaking of the Covenant, said that ...
Putin to "explain" Merkel's why the USSR went to the agreement ... UNIAN
Putin: "The Molotov - Ribbentrop Pact was the point." Merkel ... Fakty.ua
Merkel and Putin went to assess the "Molotov ... IA REGNUM GLAVPOST.COM - (Blog)
NEWSru.com
Putin will take off after the meeting with Merkel
BBC News - 19 hours. Ago
However, Merkel has declared its readiness to work with Russia to find solutions
to the most difficult situations. "We are out of our ...
After meeting with Putin, Merkel takes a day off Dni.Ru
After a meeting with Angela Merkel, Vladimir Putin will ... St. Petersburg Diary
After meeting with Putin, Merkel will output for one day BaltInfo.ru
Yoki.ru - News Regina Russia
Merkel: "annexation" of Crimea attacked a co ...
Rosbalt.RU - 9 hours. Ago
Merkel: "annexation" of the Crimea struck the cooperation of Russia and Germany.
MOSCOW, May 10. German Chancellor Angela Merkel ...
Merkel: The annexation of the Crimea is a threat to European ...
Home | Deutsche Welle - 16 hrs. Ago
German Chancellor Angela Merkel (Angela Merkel), paid a visit to Moscow, expressed
confidence that the annexation of the Crimea is ...
Home | Deutsche Welle
Ban Ki-moon visits and Merkel in Russia will increase pressure on Putin ...
RIA Novosti Ukraine - 3 hrs. Ago
KIEV, May 11 - RIA Novosti Ukraine. Visits by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon
and German Chancellor Angela Merkel ...
UN Secretary-General and Merkel in Moscow will be talking about ... DailyUa
RIA Novosti Ukraine
Results MAY 10: Merkel's visit to Putin and the presidential elections ...
Of Korrespondent.net - 2 hours. The back
Polling stations opened at the presidential elections in Poland. Voters can vote
from 7:00 to 21:00 local ...
of Korrespondent.net
Merkel: no truce in the Donbass, Crimea Russia ...
Pronedra - 5 hrs. Ago
Merkel and Putin were close to reporters. The Chancellor said that Russian-German
relations badly flawed ...
Internet newspaper Garry Kasparov
Merkel travels to Moscow on an important mission
NTV.ru - 1 day ago
Today in Moscow, waiting for Angela Merkel. However, Vladimir Putin and Angela
Merkel to commemorate the victims of the Second World War ...
NTV.ru
Gorbachev was convinced that Merkel did not go to Moscow on May 9 because of ...
NTV.ru - 3 days. ago
Disclaimer German Chancellor Angela Merkel to come to Moscow on May 9 Victory Day
is due to the strong pressure on her from the ...
Gorbachev explained Merkel refusal to come on May 9 in Moscow ... TV Center -
Official website of TV channel
Gorbachev explained Merkel refusal to come to the Victory Parade ... Lenta.ru
Gorbachev explained Merkel refusal to come to Moscow on May 9 ... RBC
Ekho Moskvy radio station - Kommersant
wrt. Merkel, I would not have called it verbrecherisch, (felonious/criminal).
There was not much violence and the population was OK.
It puts Putin in one line with Hitler etc. we should appreciate, how it was done.
Illegal : yes. And lying.
wrong side of history ,threat to peace on Earth - future will tell whether Putin continues this line
no, I wasn't fully aware of the details of "Generalplan Ost"
(did I hear the word before ? I'm not sure), of course I'd heard
about "Lebensraum im Osten" (room for living in the East)
slogan/strategy/policy.
But I didn't really know the extend, the given 30M in 25years -figure,
the detailed planning and geography.
Maybe I read about it long ago, but forgot. Well, I was always bad in
History,German,Art,Social Science,Culture in school and specialized in
natural science, math, computers.
Some interest in history and policy came with internet in 1997.
Is "Generalplan Ost" generally well known in Germany nowadays ?
I don't think so. The info is available but usually not given
in books and articles, not talked about. I think they are avoiding it.
It was all secret at that time, they just skipped WW2 in school
(just my class, other schools covered it) and the details were
not given in most German books/reports. The main Nazi-evil-deed in the
press uses to be the killing of Jews where the extend was controversial.
Generalplan Ost was never verified, but the planning of 30M killing or
deporting to Sibieria within 25 years -not just as a thought experiment
but apparently explicite guidelines of policy - is maybe even worse
than the open planning of killing the 11M European Jews and actually
doing so for ~6M.
only ~800 google hits for "generalplan ost" ,
569 at bing , 277 for "generalplan ost" "umsetzung"
Are normal Russians aware of Generalplan Ost, the 30M ?
And as for Ukraine, when Russians and East-Ukrainians call the current
Kiev-regime "Nazis" , do they really have this in mind ?
Are they suggesting Ukraine wants/supports such offensive
killing/deportation strategies ?
But still I think that sort of thinking was not unprecedented in history.
If you don't accept just religious superiority principles, then we had
colonialism, killing > 90% of Indians in America etc. (was that "good"
for America in the long run ?)
But it was unprecedented in the -then- modern times.
From your first link: The GPO was in effect a utopian, ideologically
oriented plan for the creation of a German land-based empire in the east.
It remains, that they misinterpreted the chances and risks of the future -
the wrong site of history.
It could not have worked because of science, genetics showing it's all
wrong, nukes, electrical machines/electronics, computers, radio,TV
So, thinking at Hitler's plans in retrospective ...I would have told him:
hi,Hitler, why more living space in the East ? The times of agriculture
are over. Let's stick to our cities and produce machinery and vehicles
and chemics and technology for export, that's where we are good at.
So maybe Russia -as a nation- really had no choice but to fight in that war.
OTOH, when you compare it with WW1 - that one was really silly (IMO),
no real reason, just national pride, strange alliances, ultimatums.
"more than 2 million Poles who have emigrated since Poland joined the EU in 2004 seeking economic opportunities in Britain and elsewhere. Surveys show that many more want to join them. Kukiz has called the exodus an "extermination" of the Polish people."
All these calls for "democracy" (they had it), and to "go with the EU for a better Ukraine" are just BS, many just want that ability to leave Ukraine and go elsewhere in Europe as happened with the Poles. When they saw Yanukovich was not going to go with the EU, they freaked out over the fact they would not be able to get the same privileges the Poles have an easily get out of Ukraine to west Europe.
Erasure, I didn't hear about events in Lugansk until today. Well it's funny to hear that Alchevsk decided to leave LPR. I didn't find any proofs that something like this happened. Also, as I said, Alchevsk is related to Lugansk, so Mozgovoy may be disagree with Plotnitskiy and LPR commandment, but not with Zaharchenko. By the way we support our president, he is regular fellow))
I only understand that Mozgovoy is a very "left"-oriented" person ( very vocally so,) and that he attracts the left-wing movement on international level. I still don't understand who/what Plotnitskiy is all about, and why LNR never made an attempt to unite with DNR. ( Although when I was watching a lenghty sparring once between Strelkov and Starikov, Strelkov made a very clear hint that it was Kremlin ( Surkov in particular) to prevent this unification.
I like Zakharchenko though. He comes across as a decent, caring and reasonable person as much as Tzarev. It would have been nice if Russia would have been run by this kind of people. ( Putin of course is from a totally different mold - both Zakharchenko and Tzarev can't not to understand it, but they bound by their dependecy on Russia and Putin, unfortunately the way I see it...)
But anyway, this is Alchevsk on Victory day.
D. M. ( I'll give you a link to her FB page if you want) who is a member of "United Communist Party" ( don't know much about it) and who was there during the events, mentioned that 16 countries were represented there, ( Ukraine including by the way.)
Re: "And I'd say, that "democratic countries" should probably learn to not to mess with Russia"
And if so it would perhaps see the revitalization of these words statistically prevalent in relation ship to 'Russia' or 'Soviet'
As for 'vocabulary', it is a harsh light shining on thought process flowering through a nation-state state and its political offshoots. So what hath Russia wrought for Europe?
Travric, Soviet Union is just another guise for Russia. Although I do understand everything you imply by your questions - after all don't forget why I left S.U. at the first place, ) concerning your question "so what hath Russia wrought for Europe, I'll remind you that Russia turned into USSR (why she turned to Communism) was because of Europe in many ways.
If capital was ruling Europe, Russia was clearly NOT benefiting from this system.
"Speaking of the first, it is obvious that any industrialization requires much capital. Russia was unable to provide it in sufficient quantities and, hence, foreign investment was widely encouraged. Eventually, some of the industries ended up being predominantly 'owed' by foreigners. For example, in steel industry - 69% of the invested capital was foreign capital; in mining - 85% of the capital investment was foreign."
( Hence the burden was double on Russian general population, since it was exploited by both their own and European overlords.)
"Sergei Witte himself said that the "economic relations of Russia with western Europe" were "fully comparable to the relations of colonial countries with their metropolises."
So England for example wouldn't have benefited from communism, for the US communism would have simply meant death, but Russian state actually benefited from communism.
no, I wasn't fully aware of the details of "Generalplan Ost"
(did I hear the word before ? I'm not sure), of course I'd heard
about "Lebensraum im Osten" (room for living in the East)
slogan/strategy/policy.
But I didn't really know the extend, the given 30M in 25years -figure,
the detailed planning and geography.
Maybe I read about it long ago, but forgot. Well, I was always bad in
History,German,Art,Social Science,Culture in school and specialized in
natural science, math, computers.
Some interest in history and policy came with internet in 1997.
And we had very good textbooks on history, from fourth grade on, that covered a lot of ground, world history and history of Russia alike. It was very grueling, very dry and academic, ( did I mention that our system of education arrived originally from Germany? ) plus our history teacher was constantly drilling us and yelling at us, so it was difficult to ignore her lessons. ( However in all honesty I don't remember that she ever mentioned specifically the "Generlplan Ost," although needless to say that WWII was covered extensively. )
Quote:
Is "Generalplan Ost" generally well known in Germany nowadays ?
I don't think so. The info is available but usually not given
in books and articles, not talked about. I think they are avoiding it.
It was all secret at that time, they just skipped WW2 in school
(just my class, other schools covered it) and the details were
not given in most German books/reports. The main Nazi-evil-deed in the
press uses to be the killing of Jews where the extend was controversial.
Generalplan Ost was never verified, but the planning of 30M killing or
deporting to Sibieria within 25 years -not just as a thought experiment
but apparently explicite guidelines of policy - is maybe even worse
than the open planning of killing the 11M European Jews and actually
doing so for ~6M. Are normal Russians aware of Generalplan Ost, the 30M ?
I don't think that an average Russian is aware of specific name of the plan or its details, but the majority are well-aware that they were targeted for extermination as an ethnic group. (Only few are in denial.) So yes, this fact is well-known; if not for it, the Vlasov's army could have been much bigger I think.
Quote:
And as for Ukraine, when Russians and East-Ukrainians call the current
Kiev-regime "Nazis" , do they really have this in mind ?
Yes. For Russian understanding "fascism" means just that - extermination of children and adults alike ( no matter what was ORIGINAL meaning of this word,) and Western Ukrainians were collaborating with Hitler's regime, wearing SS uniforms, while Eastern Ukraine sustained the heavy losses in WWII. Current new government in Kiev honors these troops, as "liberators of Ukraine," plus current bombing of civilians in Donbass brings the old memories forth.
Quote:
Are they suggesting Ukraine wants/supports such offensive
killing/deportation strategies ?
If your question pertains to the times of the WWII, part of Ukrainians support the belief that they share with PART of Russians, that it was not about extermination of population, but about "liberation from Bolshevism." And some believe outright that they belong to the "master race." And yes, during the war quite a few Ukrainians participated in extermination of Jews, and not only them ( look up the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police)
But if your question pertains to today's events, then even there the hatred towards "Easterners" as a "lesser kind" expressed by "new and democratic Ukraine" and reports of desirable deportations and replacement of the Donbass population with Western Ukrainians as a solution to "Eastern problem" are surfacing on the internet.
Quote:
But still I think that sort of thinking was not unprecedented in history.
If you don't accept just religious superiority principles, then we had
colonialism, killing > 90% of Indians in America etc. (was that "good"
for America in the long run ?)
No, the whole deal of racial/genetic selection ideas is not coming originally from Germany, but they were simply implemented there on unprecedented scale. It's sort of like Church Reformation was put in action in Germany by Martin Luther, however the idea of it was already expressed somewhere else earlier. ( Overall it's a tendency of Germanic countries I think, that same ideas are circulating in few places, here and there - they usually never take place in one isolated country exclusively.)
Quote:
But it was unprecedented in the -then- modern times.
What was unprecedented about it, was an attempt to create the whole new race, eradicating and replacing already existing ones. If Germans for example would have wanted just to eliminate Russians in order to take over their territories ( as it was with White settlers in the US,) it would have been one thing. But it was a far more complex plan, of eradicating whole "undesirable" ethnic groups that didn't even have the land ( gypsy and jews,) along with those whose land was coveted, plus the whole classification scheme of the other ethnic groups\nations, plus creation of the "new race."
Quote:
From your first link: The GPO was in effect a utopian, ideologically
oriented plan for the creation of a German land-based empire in the east.
It remains, that they misinterpreted the chances and risks of the future -
the wrong site of history.
It could not have worked because of science, genetics showing it's all
wrong, nukes, electrical machines/electronics, computers, radio,TV
So, thinking at Hitler's plans in retrospective ...I would have told him:
hi,Hitler, why more living space in the East ? The times of agriculture
are over. Let's stick to our cities and produce machinery and vehicles
and chemics and technology for export, that's where we are good at.
You know where you'd end up with this kind of questions, do you?
As I've said, it was not just about usual story of conquered lands/subjugated people; Hitler considered himself a messiah, bringing drastic changes to the world.
Quote:
So maybe Russia -as a nation- really had no choice but to fight in that war.
You mean WWII?
Why, did you ever think that Russians DID have a choice not to fight in that war; that it was not "do or die" situation for them?
Quote:
OTOH, when you compare it with WW1 - that one was really silly (IMO),
no real reason, just national pride, strange alliances, ultimatums.
I'm sure it had its own reasons behind it.
I just never looked into it.
"Moscow; and Warsaw — Szczepan Siekierka was a teenager in 1943 when irregular Ukrainian nationalist forces entered his village in Volhynia, now part of western Ukraine, and brutally slaughtered 16 members of his family.
His voice still shakes when he describes how the men, members of the Nazi-linked Ukrainian Insurgent Army [UPA], murdered everyone they could find, including women and children. "They weren't fighting for a free Ukraine. The people they killed were civilians, ordinary farmers who often couldn't write their own names and who knew nothing of politics."
These UPA fighters, along with other Ukrainian nationalist factions, waged a little-known wartime ethnic cleansing campaign that sought to eliminate unwanted groups, such as Jews and Poles, from what they deemed to be the territory of a future independent Ukrainian state. As many as 100,000 Poles died at their hands."
Re: ""Sergei Witte himself said that the "economic relations of Russia with western Europe" were "fully comparable to the relations of colonial countries with their metropolises."
Good piece erasure.
The above remark is the result I'd think after things go sour when enterprises start with needed 'outside help'. It was evident that Russia at that time just didn't have the skill set existing in her manpower. She'd had to go outside of herself. With no 'free-enterprise' and a 'top down ' command economy it had to affect the development of occupational skills needed for the modern age. Indeed it really affected her 'running out of time'.
But it was interesting to note that the Crimean War as well as other events such as the 1917 'takedown' of Old Nick and his 'Aristos' plus WWI really put a damper on the Russian eco engine room.
An interesting thing I find about Russia today seems to be following somewhat the same pattern as in those early days after the dumping of the Czars. War once again seems to be active on the Russian table once again. Add to that the ambitious annexation of the Crimea which has made Europe not go 'nighty-nite' easily with Russian lullabyes rationalizing the swipe. I don't know. Perhaps they are making it harder for themselves once again. You know with Russia maybe we have to say, 'It's always something!'.
Meanwhile today, John Kerry, Lavrov and Putin had a long talk about something behind closed doors in Sochi...
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He comes across as a decent, caring and reasonable person as much as Tzarev. It would have been nice if Russia would have been run by this kind of people. ( Putin of course is from a totally different mold - both Zakharchenko and Tzarev can't not to understand it, but they bound by their dependecy on Russia and Putin, unfortunately the way I see it...) 
) concerning your question "so what hath Russia wrought for Europe, I'll remind you that Russia turned into USSR (why she turned to Communism) was because of Europe in many ways.
( However in all honesty I don't remember that she ever mentioned specifically the "Generlplan Ost," although needless to say that WWII was covered extensively. )
