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I understand people have their own world view on things but sometimes you need to step back and try to look at it from a neutral perspective. The United States and the European Union do have some responsibility in this. But the primary actors in this are the Ukrainians and the Russians, both of which are neither totally right or totally wrong.
Yes, but the primary actors are heavily influenced from decisions by the US and EU; decisions are not made in a bubble without in regard to future actions influenced by these decisions. If it was that simple, then the question of :should we bomb Iran" would be easy, as it would be a one time event without any influence what happens one year or even twenty years later. However, the US and Mideast in general are concerned what would happen if there was an attack on Iran, not only now, but in the future.
Russian decisions are influenced by others, especially the heavy weight US. Obama is already getting called out by members of our own Congress over this, using things like Syria and Iran as proof of Obama's weakness, thus Putin's braveness (not saying it is correct). So obviously, even politicians know that past events are influential in the future.
But why bring up past events? because this gauges the reaction by the international community, thus Russia's and Ukraine's reaction right now.
mis-info is everywhere; according to them, Russia has attacked and sunken a few ships, plus killed a few Ukrainian troops, and shot down some planes..
Yeah! That's all my ukrainians friends and relatives said. New government intentionally lies about russian troops attacks and keep blowing out this war hysteria in Kiev.
Well in fact I saw that second video. But as I don't understand the language, it's always a bit difficult to tell.
Correct.
And that's why there is literally a hysteria on You-tube; Westerners commenting on this video, since some smart a** ( sorry I can't find a better word) posted this snippet out of the context to advance his agenda.
As much as I don't like to comment on Youtube, I had to fix his (a-hem) mischief.
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I know many people don't support the Maidan, but in Kharkiv there was also a huge pro-maidan protest which attracted 30,000 people, the KharkivMaidan, and it was actually peaceful in the beginning. But why would Kharkiv residents use Russian buses in their own city?
Who had the building first is debatable. RSA buildings have been stormed or attempted to storm in every province.
I am not even going to contest it, because what you clearly see on the first video is the mayor of the city ( who happened to be quite popular there) addressing the meeting and asking people to not to be provoked by the actions of these radicals. The mayor is a mayor, but do these "freedom fighters" who were drugged out of the administration building look like legitimate representatives of power? I think not, even though Kiev gave an order to police to give them a free hand and not to touch them.
Hence- 90 people injured while removing them from the building and that's precisely the kind of things that Eastern Ukrainians didn't want to see happening on their territory.
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I don't WANT to see that. I don't want to see any violence in Ukraine, but peaceful democratic elections.
You already saw "peaceful democratic elections" on Maidan in Kiev - we all saw it, haven't we?
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Anyway, I'm not part of the Western media, so I don't have the obligation to fact-check everything when I post a video.
edit: In fact today the National TV and at least two big newspapers reported that "The Russians are seen as liberators on the Crimea - many Ukrainian soldiers have defected", and "The Russian deadline ultimatum possibly only propaganda" so at least here we don't have a hateful anti-Russian propaganda going on.
Quite honestly, I am not all that concerned with a subject of "Russia bashing." To me it's not a point, what important for me was to understand what Eastern Ukrainians/Crimeans really think about the whole situation and whether they were/are willing to get along with those people in Kiev who decided to side with European Union. After everything I saw on Youtube and ( particularly) read on the internet, my impression is no, they genuinely want to stick with Russia and they are set in their own ways.
I am far away from insisting that those on Maidan are all "paid by the West," or that they are all "fascist" "radicals," - I perfectly understand where many of them are coming from, and what their aspirations are. Whether these aspiration are realistic or not - that's another question, but who am I to argue with their desire to "get in Europe," HOWEVER... That being said, I understand that Eastern Ukrainians want none of it and I understand as well why.
So. As far as I'm concerned, the rhetoric about "united, undivided Ukraine" becomes just that - a rhetoric.
It would only make sense for those two ( no, make it three) to part their ways, yet I don't see it happening for a reason that I've already mentioned before - for the EU/NATO such split and acquisition of Western Ukraine doesn't serve the purpose; the ultimate prize for them is the WHOLE Ukraine, Eastern part including. That's the only way they can squeeze Russia for good. Yet by doing so, by trying to claim Eastern Ukraine, they are encroaching on different civilization, they are trying to grab what doesn't belong to them, and this is a problem that goes beyond Putin ( whom I greatly dislike,) corruption, and so on. This is the issue that's not going to be resolved in easy way, it's going to alert Russians big time ( and I don't mean just the government,) and it's going to set East against West as never before.
I might be wrong of course, but that's what I can see happening. What's done is already done, I don't think either side is going to back down, so the show must go on, apparently.
LINative,I wasn't suggesting to just "give" the Crimea to Russia. Let them do their referendum,
decide how they want to live, address their concerns, give them partial autonomy.
What color their uniforms and flags are is not so important, is it ? Take care that
they handle their minorities well and legally they are still Ukraine and as such
subject to the 1994 memorandum, black-sea-treaty and such.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-4Bzjutm0
it's a 9:33 min. video, Churkin (=Tschurkin) speaks in Russian,
reads it from a manuscript of many pages. There is a 2nd voice
with an English translation. Maybe a transcript is available,
I don't know. He mainly speaks about the events and the Russian
view of it. I couldn't yet find in it whether he addresses the
possible/probable violations of international laws, the 1994 memorandum,
the 1997 black sea fleet agreement.
the whole thing is astonishing. How can there be debate about such a clear thing
with different opinions, long statements, without coming to the point, without
consensus ?
And this is all just about an issue where there seems to be general agreement,
peace and order and new elections in Ukraine.
They could debate for weeks whether 1+1=2 without coming to an agreement
with totally different opinions, with escalating mutual attacks and accusations.
Suppose a nuke detonates somewhere, some ship is sunk or airplane shot,
do you think they could ever agree who it was, who was responsible, what consequences
and sanctions and countersanctions and invasions and escalations might be appropriate ?
They established the "red telefone" to deal with such things. Obama spoke with
Putin for 90min immediately after the intervention.
But what did they talk about ? They still don't understand the other position and plans.
They agree on international law being kept (let the Courts decide), usefullness to protect
citizens - Russian speaking or not - from violence, stability, elections.
Still there is so much disagreement and sanctions and worsening relations, stocks down.
Why ? Is it still the old East-West thing, who controls the military bases - they should
say so, if yes. So a solution could be elaborated.
Speaking to relatives in Ukraine yesterday (ethnic Ukrainians, but raised elsewhere in the USSR, moved to Ukraine in the 90's), mis-info is everywhere; according to them, Russia has attacked and sunken a few ships, plus killed a few Ukrainian troops, and shot down some planes. They are mobilizing, but only people who have previously been in the Ukrainian military, and they have not seen any sings themselves of mass mobilization. They say check points are everywhere, started during the protests to keep people out of Kiev (they live in central Ukraine). They have really just stayed home.
And speaking of Central Ukraine, how are things along the Dnieper? Lately the activity discussed is usually of events in
the South and East. I only ask this at perhaps it may be premature but nevertheless I will throw it out.
It's become evident to me that Vladimir Putin is mining this situation for all its worth. I'm getting the feeling that if there is just a glimmer of anything relating at all to 'Kievian' politics in the east or Soth right now well it won't stand a chance. The tinderbox is there and ready to blow up. from the looks of it I'd suggest perhaps Ukriane will eventually be 'partitioned' and perhaps the Dnieper will be the demarcation in the Ukraine. Fantasy? I don't know but the genie is out the bottle.
All in all, I'm afraid Russia's decision to intervene has split the country er....irrevocably. If the Ukrianians and Russians were fraternal 'brothers' the family unit now has been destroyed. And we know how 'families' can fight.
Putin may acknowledge the result of an election, but only
if it was not held under terror.
Who will determine what terror is ?
Will he accept the UN-observers ?
It may indeed all be "only" about influencing the elections,
increasing the chances of a Moscow-wanted outcome,
and the troops may leave after/if that is achieved.
If not - who knows. (IMO)
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