Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And it's all because people are stupid enough to pay $100 for a Yankees jersey, or thousands of dollars for an autographed baseball.
And the best part is 90% of the folks wearing the $100 jersey can only name one player - JETER!!! But let's keep this thing about teachers. Here's my KISS statement:
Cut the waste, cut the fraud, cut the abuse. Fire the Superintendents, consolidate into countywide districts, and pay the teachers in accordance with cost of living.
Well then let's cut all around. If you're fighting fires in a town with nothing but single story ranch homes surely you could do you job with a lawn tractor, a garden hose, and an aluminum extension ladder The average fire apparatus costs a half million dollars. Wasted taxpayer money if ya ask me
$500k/20 years (low end of service time - its usually 25 years) = $25,000/yr.
If theres only single story ranches though, and no business - no need for a ladder truck then! And if there aren't any major roads, you don't get a rescue rig - you put your hydrolic systems ("jaws of life") on the engine. See? Effective spending.
I was thinking about this on the way to the dentist this morning. Here is the perception the public has of teachers: people who work 3/4 of the year, have off in my district the following holidays: Labor Day, Veteran's Day, a week at Thanksgiving (2 days of which are comp days for parent-teacher conferences), two weeks at Christmas, Martin Luther King Day, President's Day, a week in March, two conference comp days in April (4 day weekend), and Memorial Day. None of these days are "work" days or "inservice days". That is 21 days off plus four comp days during the school year, plus the summer. The school day in elementary school is about 6 1/2 hrs; 7 hrs for middle school; and 7 1/2 hrs for high school. These folks are represented by labor unions and go on strike at all sorts of inconvenient times, like right before high school final exams. They tend to have fabulous benefits the rest of us only dream of, and get automatic raises instead of merit pay.
John and Jane Doe, on the other hand, work twelve months a year, get two weeks vacation for starts and usually 10 holidays. Comp time for the salaried is a "maybe" thing, as in if your boss decides it is OK for you to take it. John and Jane generally pay more for their health insurance, and are subject to merit reviews. Even if John/Jane are represented by a union, they usually work the above hours, and probably get overtime rather than comp time. (I read that a study showed the group that gets one wants the other instead.)
Teachers see themselves as dedicated professionals who work much more than their contracted 8 hr day. They also seem to see themselves as the "only" profession to have to do this, that, the other (call clients [parents], do little clerical chores like take attendance, etc.
John and Jane tend not to be overly sympathetic to teachers due to the above. It would be nice if we could all get along. I think teachers would get more empathy, and thus more support, if they dropped the "poor me" attitude many of them have, and also if they acknowledged that they don't have it so bad. If they would occasionally say, "Yes, it's nice to have the summer off", etc, it would be helpful.
John and Jane tend not to be overly sympathetic to teachers due to the above. It would be nice if we could all get along. I think teachers would get more empathy, and thus more support, if they dropped the "poor me" attitude many of them have, and also if they acknowledged that they don't have it so bad. If they would occasionally say, "Yes, it's nice to have the summer off", etc, it would be helpful.
I'd love to know where all of these bitter teachers are. My fiancee loves her job and her co-workers all seem like very happy people. Maybe its the altitude out there? lol
John and Jane tend not to be overly sympathetic to teachers due to the above. It would be nice if we could all get along. I think teachers would get more empathy, and thus more support, if they dropped the "poor me" attitude many of them have, and also if they acknowledged that they don't have it so bad. If they would occasionally say, "Yes, it's nice to have the summer off", etc, it would be helpful.
I'm not too sure that you have followed this thread.
There has not been one teacher who has written here saying "poor me". It is the people who are saying "how dare they have to work eight hour days, grade papers at night, work on assignments from home and be happy with only $50k per year".
My question is...
Since when has $50k per year been considered too high of a salary for someone?
I'm not too sure that you have followed this thread.
There has not been one teacher who has written here saying "poor me". It is the people who are saying "how dare they have to work eight hour days, grade papers at night, work on assignments from home and be happy with only $50k per year".
My question is...
Since when has $50k per year been considered too high of a salary for someone?
Also-if pittnurse cares to scroll back she'll see that my fiancee makes $7,000 per year less than that and it's her second year teaching. To earn $50,000 anytime soon, she'll have to complete her master's (she has 10 credits of 38 currently and takes one class per semester) first. The income "steps" that increase with seniority are relatively small-$600 increase one year, $800 the next, etc... Again, we just want to live without worrying whether or not we'll be able to make next month's mortgage payment. It's not as if we're trying to afford a vacation villa in Cabo San Lucas and his and hers Bentleys
Add to that a room full of students where at least half of them are just as sarcastic and disrespectful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juliann1977
Could not agree more. I taught for 7 years before "retiring" to stay at home with my 18 month old. I am routinely asked when I'll be returning, as the hours are perfect for raising a family yada, yada, yada. The thing is, to do it well you have to invest a whole lot more time than those school hours. When I left, I was teaching A.P. English, and [i]my paperload was absolutely insane[/I]. Sure, I could do a half-assed job and be able to juggle both, but that isn't for me. I'll return after I have my kids in school if I can find a district that'll allow me to teach part-time, say two periods a day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrjersey;2030665 [COLOR="Blue"
Of course there's the child who needs glasses but whose mother has every excuse in the world why she doesn't have them...even when we've told her she can get them for free. [/color]
So the answer to some of this is that the problem kids sit in the front of the class, and the girl who needs glasses also needs to sit in the front...hmm, the front of my class isn't big enough. Now add in NCLB and my class needs to be able to show Adequate Yearly Progress over last year-even though these students have disabilities. So I write lesson plans to compensate for all of my kids learning disabilities and behavior issues.
And even though I'm a Special Ed teacher this is happening in regular ed classrooms across the country.
BTW...I spent about $1500 out of my own pocket last year for school supplies because my annual supplies budget from the school is $200. I am a good shopper but I will be out of writing paper in my classroom by January. If I want my kids to have paper I will have to buy it myself. My point is that whether it's the guy standing in the freezing cold or the teacher at the front of the class, everyone chooses to do what they do. I took a 50% pay cut to become a teacher...because I love it. My benefits stink compared to what I had, I contribute to my pension, I will never get a bonus, I don't get over time when I spend 20 hours doing lesson plans and grading papers at home each week and I have to work a summer job just try to make ends meet.
So, do I think teachers starting salaries she be on par with other high-demand/highly skilled jobs...yes I do. You may not think teaching is a skill like engineering but just try to do it to the level that you want all of your child's teachers to do it and you are talking HIGHLY SKILLED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
What the hell, I'll jump into this developing flame war There are serious problems with the methods we use for funding education in this state, but teacher salaries are not the problem. Superintendent's salaries, administrative corruption and waste, and lack of consolidation are the problem.
My fiancee teaches in North Jersey and makes $43K. She taught for one year at a Catholic school in Union, which she loved, but the salary ($29K) was a joke. After student loans, gas, groceries, etc...there was nothing left over. The health benefits were nothing to write home about either. So she left and was hired at a public school. I work for the federal government and make less than she does ($35K) and have the same expenses. As a result, we have had a heck of a time finding a place to live in this state (as many of you have read) as even though we are both reviled public servants whose salaries consist of tax dollars, we still have to pay the same home prices and property taxes as the rest of you.
I really don't want to get into a "who works harder" argument, but she does grade papers/homework/tests, works on lesson plans for the coming weeks, etc...for a few hours practically every night. The job does not end at 3:00. Right now she works during the summer but probably won't always do so. She would like to eventually become a stay at home mom once we have children, but it's not easy to ensure that since we're both making sub $50K salaries. Again, we're not complaining, we're both doing what we love, we just want to be able to live in a home of our own and not live paycheck to paycheck.
I'm also not going to make the argument against accountability for schools, but I know that there's no easy answer to the problem. Children are not widgets. What I mean is that if you have a factory worker producing widgets, you can easily gauge his productivity by looking at his widgets. If they are clean and shiny and he makes a lot of them, you give him a raise/promotion, bonus, or raise. Children are living breathing beings with minds of their own and homelives that you are not privvy to and cannot do anything about. Case in point, if you are teaching in Camden or Newark and teach children who didn't have breakfast, are wearing the same dirty clothes from the day before, and are going home to a filthy rat trap of a home with maybe one drug addicted or absentee parent, is it fair to be judged by the same criteria as a teacher from Princeton? A teacher with students who want for nothing and have parents constantly hounding them about grades, sending them to SAT prep classes, and prodding them to aim high with regards to college choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrjersey
OK, so you all have a lot of time during the day...I've been teaching all day, just got home and saw how active you have all been today. I can't hang around though because I have to go do a new set of report cards that the district gave me today that has to go home with the students by next week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
Many I'm sure. My fiancee is in parent teacher conferences this week and I've already heard some whoppers. First let me say that her district has not had a school budget passed in over 25 years, yet she gets complaints from parents about having to buy pencils, pens, markers, book covers, etc... Also, the PARENTS complain that there is too much homework and that work should be done in school! They actually believe that homework is a teacher's way of slacking off!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
Then what is the solution to all of this nonsense? I hear a lot of complaining but no proposals. Year round school? Sentence the teachers to hard labor during summers? Less pay? I don't know what a house costs in Colorado, but here in New Jersey it's tough to find anything decent for less than $250-275K which means you'd better have a take home household income of at least $100K. Rents are nothing to sneeze at either. A nice one bedroom will range from $1000-1500 a month. Wages should at least ATTEMPT to keep up with the cost of living. And before you say move further away to a cheaper area, have you looked the price of gas lately?
Why do the teachers need to be there if your children are not? With the internet and PCs lesson plans, grade entry, e-mail, etc...can be done anywhere.
As the significant other of a teacher I assure you its not. I frequently help grade papers, homework, etc...so that we can have more time to ourselves. Before you jump all over me (or her) I have an education degree, I just decided not to teach because frankly, I hated it and you couldn't pay me $100K per year to do it.
Well how long does it usually take you to write a lesson plan? Would you know how to write one? One of my education professors (who was known for being blunt) told my class "If a lesson plan takes you less than 30 minutes to write, I don't care who you are, it probably sucks." How long would it take you to plan an entire unit on the Civil War? Could you prepare a powerpoint with pictures and notes, come up with teaser questions, a unit test, a study guide for the test, etc...all in two hours? Don't forget to squeeze in calls to parents for various reasons, daily grade/attendance tallying, etc... Keep in mind that those two planning periods are likely 40 minutes each. Do you know how long it takes to choreograph a 40 minute period? A lot longer than 40 minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti
who is arguing that? the most demanding things in a classroom are dealing with 20 children, and parents who don't respect their authority or expertise. should compensation be merely based upon how hard the classroom work is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
I'd love to know where all of these bitter teachers are. My fiancee loves her job and her co-workers all seem like very happy people. Maybe its the altitude out there? lol
Above are a few examples. Lots of animosity towards the parents.
Above are a few examples. Lots of animosity towards the parents.
Wrong-that's what's known as a reality check. You presented teaching as some sort of effortless dream job that required no thought or dedication whatsoever. Those posts merely asserted the fact that teaching is in fact a JOB that requires effort. As a nurse I'm sure you deal with patients who are less than pleasant. Teachers have to deal with parents and kids with the same disposition. If someone complained to you that nurses have it easy and shouldn't aspire to make more money I'm sure you could come up with plenty of examples which would back up the fact that nursing is hard work. And gee-look who's doing just that in this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittnurse70
New RNs make about $50K/yr for working 12 months, weekends, holidays, crazy shifts, two weeks vacation and maybe 10 holidays, not all of which get to be taken on the holiday itself.
Soldiers currently serving in Iraq make considerably less than a first year RN. Should those RN's not receive that pay because they're not getting shot at?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The average fire apparatus costs a half million dollars. Wasted taxpayer money if ya ask me 
to stay at home with my 18 month old. I am routinely asked when I'll be returning, as the hours are perfect for raising a family yada, yada, yada. The thing is, to do it well you have to invest a whole lot more time than those school hours. When I left, I was teaching A.P. English, and [i]my paperload was absolutely insane[/I]. Sure, I could do a half-assed job and be able to juggle both, but that isn't for me. I'll return after I have my kids in school if I can find a district that'll allow me to teach part-time, say two periods a day.
