Pope's Visit: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Philadelphia: construction, living)

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

The city had been preparing for the Bicentennial. Mills had been closing for years. The Bicentennial was supposed to be our chance to roll out Society Hill. Center City businesses were counting on the Bicentennial to bring tourists who would go home & tell their friend's & maybe some of those tourists would decide to move their business to Philadelphia. . .then in June Rizzo announced that he wanted the national guard to keep away god-knows-who. But they were going to be violent. (Some protesters were expected)

It was just enough time before the tourists were expected that there were mass reservation cancellations. A lot of Rizzo fans couldn't forgive that & that's why there's a 2 term limit on the mayor.

OT now. But remember the attempt to recall him?

[Janszoon]

Did anyone happen to read the IM Q&A that Nutter did on Philly.com this morning? Some of it was pretty funny.

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Rizzo created the idea that the celebration would bring out protestors or some such, totally poisoning the atmosphere. Announcing that hundreds of National Guard people would be needed to control crowds drove people away instead.

It was a chance to display the city in a way it hadn't been before that was thrown away. Back then too, we really didn't know how to market the city at all. We learned!

Originally Posted by southbound_295

The city had been preparing for the Bicentennial. Mills had been closing for years. The Bicentennial was supposed to be our chance to roll out Society Hill. Center City businesses were counting on the Bicentennial to bring tourists who would go home & tell their friend's & maybe some of those tourists would decide to move their business to Philadelphia. . .then in June Rizzo announced that he wanted the national guard to keep away god-knows-who. But they were going to be violent. (Some protesters were expected)

It was just enough time before the tourists were expected that there were mass reservation cancellations. A lot of Rizzo fans couldn't forgive that & that's why there's a 2 term limit on the mayor.

Thanks. (Reps all around but looks like I have to recharge before sending more your way, ky01.)

[Pine to Vine]

The media's all about security today as they cover the pope's arrival shortly. One consideration is not only security for the pope and those around him, but it takes into account of logistics should something horrible happen. This helped me understand the shutdown of the interstates and other major thoroughfares which might be several miles from the pope's actual presence. The city would immediately find itself gridlocked, only adding to the emergency.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

The secret service is involved. They're going to be involved again next year. If you don't like this, you're going to hate it next year. Go to the Charlotte board & search DNC. You're getting a mini dry run for next year.

When the secret service is involved with these events they call the shots. All your city can do is advocate for the citizens to make it less oppressive or oppressive to the least number of people.

Your charge that I'm for the status quo gave me a good laugh. What I do know is there are times that you just can't fight a force. The force that you can't fight more than any other is the secret service & they do not care if Joe Blow or Mary Smith can get to work. They don't care if elderly parishioners from outlying areas can come to an event. They do care that buildings & people don't get blown up.

I lived in the Twin Cities during the 2008 RNC. It was wild - I had been involved in the anti-war movement for a few years, and this convention wound up being the kind of dying breath the movement that had already been in decline, as most of the energy got swallowed up by the presidential election itself. Ramsey County Sheriff acted like the radical community in the Twin Cities posed a major threat - all these houses were raided. National Guard patrolled the streets.

The weird thing is that there actually was quite a bit of resistance back there and then - some scuffles with police, damage to private property and police cars, some mayhem after some concerts, a big Ron Paul counter convention, with a significant number of people willing to come march with leftists, lots of tear gas clouds. A lot of it happened just a block or two from the Xcel Energy Center. A few wackos from Texas wound up coming armed even.

Took the bus to school in the morning, work in the afternoon, downtown St. Paul in the evening, and back home to South Minneapolis at night everyday of it. Maybe had to walk a block out of the way for detours, can't even remember now.

The DNC will be in South Philly at the stadiums...I can't see it being as big of an impact as this is. It's just a convention. We have conventions all the time. This big catholic convention is going on right now, and it's just a normal day in Philly with a big convention.

The super-security has to do with both the Pope being an important individual, and the 1.5 million people they said would come to weekend events. The DNC won't be all that many more people than when a sports game is going on, except some people consider the participants more important. Important folks come here all the time - I live a few blocks away from a major political donor, and I never even know when the President or others have been here until it's in the paper the next day.

The mayor in an FAQ on philly.com today said about as much.

As to your second point - it makes no sense, because that's exactly what a ton of people, including myself, did. Wrote a bunch of letters to a bunch of people and now the subway is back to essentially serving the whole city, with minor inconveniences. But the BSL making all major stops has reconnected vast swaths of North, NW, NE, as well as northern suburbs to downtown Philadelphia. It was a good fight to fight, and people accomplished what they essentially set out to do.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

The DNC will be in South Philly at the stadiums...I can't see it being as big of an impact as this is. It's just a convention. We have conventions all the time. This big catholic convention is going on right now, and it's just a normal day in Philly with a big convention.

Afaik the DNC is twice as large as the RNC. Chances are they will utilize the Wells Fargo Center and all of the
PA Convention Ctr. Not the stadiums. Depending upon what happens, both Clintons will be there. Biden will be there. Sanders if he lasts will be there. Perhaps Obama will be there. It's a huge media event and more than "just a convention". This is thoroughly Democratic city and a union town.

No, it won't be like the Pope weekend. You're right about that. But it won't be small either.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Afaik the DNC is twice as large as the RNC. Chances are they will utilize the Wells Fargo Center and all of the
PA Convention Ctr. Not the stadiums. Depending upon what happens, both Clintons will be there. Biden will be there. Sanders if he lasts will be there. Perhaps Obama will be there. It's a huge media event and more than "just a convention". This is thoroughly Democratic city and a union town.

No, it won't be like the Pope weekend. You're right about that. But it won't be small either.

Yeah, an exaggeration. Compared to the pope event, which is a once (or in this case twice) in a lifetime event, they've fairly routine though.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

OT now. But remember the attempt to recall him?

Yes!!!

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

The city had been preparing for the Bicentennial. Mills had been closing for years. The Bicentennial was supposed to be our chance to roll out Society Hill. Center City businesses were counting on the Bicentennial to bring tourists who would go home & tell their friend's & maybe some of those tourists would decide to move their business to Philadelphia. . .then in June Rizzo announced that he wanted the national guard to keep away god-knows-who. But they were going to be violent. (Some protesters were expected)

It was just enough time before the tourists were expected that there were mass reservation cancellations. A lot of Rizzo fans couldn't forgive that & that's why there's a 2 term limit on the mayor.

Also, Legionnaire's Disease at the Bellevue (in the July outbreak that gave it it's name) helped to scare away a bunch of people.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

I lived in the Twin Cities during the 2008 RNC. It was wild - I had been involved in the anti-war movement for a few years, and this convention wound up being the kind of dying breath the movement that had already been in decline, as most of the energy got swallowed up by the presidential election itself. Ramsey County Sheriff acted like the radical community in the Twin Cities posed a major threat - all these houses were raided. National Guard patrolled the streets.

The weird thing is that there actually was quite a bit of resistance back there and then - some scuffles with police, damage to private property and police cars, some mayhem after some concerts, a big Ron Paul counter convention, with a significant number of people willing to come march with leftists, lots of tear gas clouds. A lot of it happened just a block or two from the Xcel Energy Center. A few wackos from Texas wound up coming armed even.

Took the bus to school in the morning, work in the afternoon, downtown St. Paul in the evening, and back home to South Minneapolis at night everyday of it. Maybe had to walk a block out of the way for detours, can't even remember now.

The DNC will be in South Philly at the stadiums...I can't see it being as big of an impact as this is. It's just a convention. We have conventions all the time. This big catholic convention is going on right now, and it's just a normal day in Philly with a big convention.

The super-security has to do with both the Pope being an important individual, and the 1.5 million people they said would come to weekend events. The DNC won't be all that many more people than when a sports game is going on, except some people consider the participants more important. Important folks come here all the time - I live a few blocks away from a major political donor, and I never even know when the President or others have been here until it's in the paper the next day.

The mayor in an FAQ on philly.com today said about as much.

As to your second point - it makes no sense, because that's exactly what a ton of people, including myself, did. Wrote a bunch of letters to a bunch of people and now the subway is back to essentially serving the whole city, with minor inconveniences. But the BSL making all major stops has reconnected vast swaths of North, NW, NE, as well as northern suburbs to downtown Philadelphia. It was a good fight to fight, and people accomplished what they essentially set out to do.

When the RNC came to town in 2000 they were in South Philly & Center City, mostly. Delegates also stayed in Cherry Hill & other suburbs.

In 2012 the DNC used hotel/motel rooms in towns 30-40 miles from Charlotte. I'm not going to go into detail. There's a thread on the Charlotte board. People on the Charlotte board consulted with people on the Denver board because they had the DNC in 2008. There were businesses in certain areas of Charlotte that shut down for a week.