Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Point being, particularly relative to the thread, there are many atheists who proselytize as well i.e. it’s on both sides. Quite simply, you’re wanting to control the narrative or feel threatened if you perceive another is attempting to do so rather than rationally (and immediately) determining its lack of importance, in and of itself. Keep in mind a majority of ‘believers’/proselytizers are elderly women. Relax! :-) As far as the previous example re: prayer (someone stating my terminally ill mother was in their prayers at the time prior to her passing), I think it’s ridiculous/weak to be offended by such, if they knew I was an atheist (or not). They’re simply expressing their condolences in their own way.
I’m an atheist who doesn’t care if Joe Schmo believes in god or the tooth fairy; hence I’m not offended by it - not by a long shot; in fact, I’d find it amusing if they think my perspective is important enough they will go to great lengths to (attempt to) change it, particularly relative to any Forum or online environment.
Atheists proselytizing. Hmmmm. I've never (in real life) experienced that. Never had an atheist come knocking on my door, or approach me in a park, or stop me on the street.
Atheists proselytizing. Hmmmm. I've never (in real life) experienced that. Never had an atheist come knocking on my door, or approach me in a park, or stop me on the street.
I was speaking specifically to the thread i.e. atheists who proselytize in response to theists who do so. What’s the difference i.e. it’s all a bunch of noise that matters not.
Point being, particularly relative to the thread, there are many atheists who proselytize as well i.e. it’s on both sides. Quite simply, you’re wanting to control the narrative or feel threatened if you perceive another is attempting to do so rather than rationally (and immediately) determining its lack of importance, in and of itself. Keep in mind a majority of ‘believers’/proselytizers are elderly women. Relax! :-) As far as the previous example re: prayer (someone stating my terminally ill mother was in their prayers at the time prior to her passing), I think it’s ridiculous/weak to be offended by such, if they knew I was an atheist (or not). They’re simply expressing their condolences in their own way.
I’m an atheist who doesn’t care if Joe Schmo believes in god or the tooth fairy; hence I’m not offended by it - not by a long shot; in fact, I’d find it amusing if they think my perspective is important enough they will go to great lengths to (attempt to) change it, particularly relative to any Forum or online environment.
That's hilarious
There is not one atheist on this board who is proselytizing. Atheists simply do not believe in fairy tales. There is nothing to convert to.
There is not one atheist on this board who is proselytizing. Atheists simply do not believe in fairy tales. There is nothing to convert to.
Every day, for years...tens of thousands of posts...hyping Atheist views...while at the same time criticizing differing Religious views, claiming they are wrong and Atheism is right.
To strangers.
That's 100% fervent proselytizing. In fact...I've never known a non-clergy or someone who is not a professional politician that proselytizes their Beliefs more than the Atheists on this board.
Proselytizing isn't only about "conversion"....advocating & promoting beliefs/opinions is also Proselytizing. pros·e·lyt·ize
/ˈpräs(ə)ləˌtīz/
verb
1. convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
2. advocate or promote (a belief or course of action).
"Davis wanted to share his concept and proselytize his ideas"
There is not one atheist on this board who is proselytizing. Atheists simply do not believe in fairy tales. There is nothing to convert to.
Some may view the constant need that some atheists have to defend their views, purposely disparaging God beliefs or revering science as proselytizing.
Learning to live without something can be fascinating; however, most people know how to do so unabated. Take fasting for example. Fasting has numerous benefits and some people swear by fasting as a cure-all; however, most profitable Epicurious discussions are not dominated by those who have discovered the joys of going without food.
Some may view the constant need that some atheists have to defend their views, purposely disparaging God beliefs or revering science as proselytizing.
Learning to live without something can be fascinating; however, most people know how to do so unabated. Take fasting for example. Fasting has numerous benefits and some people swear by fasting as a cure-all; however, most profitable Epicurious discussions are not dominated by those who have discovered the joys of going without food.
I never thought going without food (fast) was joyful. But I'm not knocking it, I've fasted before but not for religious reasons.
There wouldn't be a need to defend atheism if it weren't under attack all the time. We shouldn't have to defend or explain non-belief. It's self-explanatory. I understand what you're saying and maybe there are staunch atheists who just like to argue and proselytize on here, but there are trolls in every belief, and non-belief. It's just the nature of the beast.
There wouldn't be a need to defend atheism if it weren't under attack all the time.
I think that’s the point i.e. why do you feel the need to defend atheism? How do we ‘defend’ an absence of belief in a god sans arguing over a god that which doesn’t exist? It’s not logical. In other words, it simply becomes a defense of one’s ego, particularly relative to those who are ‘offended’ by another’s belief in a god. It isn’t personal. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsouth
I get highly offended when someone that knows I am not religious says it or quotes scripture or something.
As an atheist, I don’t know anyone who quotes scripture; people have a tendency to socialize with those who think as they do - or at the least, they respect each other’s opinion/differences (and don’t discuss it).
In other words, if you’re ‘offended’, it’s up to you to do something about it i.e. you control who interacts with you/your opinion - not what other people think. Consider it the other way around i.e. someone who is offended by my atheism; it’s their problem, not mine.
I considered the message to be they were thinking of my mother i.e. they weren’t suggesting I pray nor were they telling me to attend church or believe in a god because they do. It was simply their way of dealing with the fact she was dying. That you or Northsouth would read into it as such (and then proceed to be offended by your own interpretation) is a result of an issue to control or dominate the narrative, from my perspective. I mean, why would I care they were praying? Would it be logical for me not to expect it, particularly among older friends of my mom - whether they knew I was an atheist or not?
I think it depends on who is saying they will pray for you. In many cases, it is because they care, as in your case. In some, it is a power thing, where the religious person thinks they are doing something for you because they believe you are at fault, and they can try and help from what they believe is a superior position. Sometimes it is just trolling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
I have no need/desire to cram my atheism down anyone’s throat anymore than I want religion crammed down mine. That said, there’s a huge distinction between someone mentioning it vs. the latter; a difference between being ‘offended’ (or offensive) vs. rationally discussing it as well. Not every opinion or conversation need result in a childish, angry battle; else atheism/religion is clearly not the problem.
I too have no need to mention my atheism unless someone asks my religious position. But when religious post their bad or false arguments on the internet, then they should have no problem when I point out the flaws on the internet.
I find the childish, angry battle comes from them not being able to actually address the counter arguments.
I think it depends on who is saying they will pray for you. In many cases, it is because they care, as in your case. In some, it is a power thing, where the religious person thinks they are doing something for you because they believe you are at fault, and they can try and help from what they believe is a superior position. Sometimes it is just trolling.
Yeah, point being, the person does not have ‘power over you’. Why be ‘offended’, as Northsouth indicated? Why even take them seriously, for that matter, particularly relative to your comment re: trolls? Obviously, we aren’t going to agree with everyone (and all the craziness) on the internet; but that’s a powerful thing in and of itself.:-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
But when religious post their bad or false arguments on the internet, then they should have no problem when I point out the flaws on the internet.
This sounds a lot like ‘feeding the trolls’ in my book. Obviously, ALL arguments relative to a belief in god are flawed as no matter where it begins, it ends with ‘faith’. Hence you’re arguing/spinning on a hamster wheel relative to a personal truth as opposed to fact or anything measurable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
I find the childish, angry battle comes from them not being able to actually address the counter arguments.
Yeah, point being, the person does not have ‘power over you’. Why be ‘offended’, as Northsouth indicated? Why even take them seriously, for that matter, particularly relative to your comment re: trolls? Obviously, we aren’t going to agree with everyone (and all the craziness) on the internet; but that’s a powerful thing in and of itself.:-)
Perhaps I am not offended because my path to atheism was a simple recognition that I no longer believed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
This sounds a lot like ‘feeding the trolls’ in my book. Obviously, ALL arguments relative to a belief in god are flawed as no matter where it begins, it ends with ‘faith’. Hence you’re arguing/spinning on a hamster wheel relative to a personal truth as opposed to fact or anything measurable.
But people have always corrected bad ideas (or ideas we think are bad). That is how we have advanced as a civilization. And if we do not post opposing views, then the other side have more influence, sometimes when that influence is negative. Creationism, for example. You may not change the mind of the person you are arguing with, but if others read what someone has posted and takes that on board, I would say that is a win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
It takes two to argue.
So if I was to post a fact, and someone disagreed, would I also be actually arguing?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
