Sticky -General Covid discussion thread (friends, years, forecast, husband)
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It seems to me that they are in a con to convince us the vaccines do some function of which they simply do not do.
There will come a day when 100% of the population has been vaccinated. On that day, COVID will still be here. Passed back and forth from vaccinated person to vaccinated person.
I do not see any herd immunity happening.
I do not see the vaccines as lending anyone any greater ability to shield from getting the virus.
But then again I grew up in an era where the government tried its hardest to convince us that marijuana would convert us to communism.
Covid may well still be here, but do you understand the difference is that there will be far less serious illness?
Instead of ending up in the hospital or a morgue, you'll probably sit home for a week and recuperate on your own because you had those vaccines.
I understand people being critical of the fact that vaccination isn't more effective in preventing all Covid 19. In the beginning, there was a lot of optimism based on Pfizer's early data that if you got vaccinated you would never get sick. Unfortunately, we have now seen the emergence of the delta and omicron variants.
What I don't understand are those--like you--who insist this is all some sort of "con game". It isn't. Its people in charge trying to respond to a difficult and evolving situation as best they can.
Con game aside, the CDC statistics show over 800,000 adverse reactions to covid vaccines and over 20,000 deaths. The CDC historically grossly underreports numbers by up to 90%. Hence actual real numbers are way higher. So weighing the risk of the vaccine vs actually getting the virus , having mild to no symptoms, and the 99% recovery rate makes avoiding them a no brainer.
Only "conspiracy" is the pharma-controlled media's failure to report the above.
As is all too common these days, the popular press has done a terrible job in setting expectations, not to mention a lousy job reporting the nature of infections that are diagnosed, so it's no wonder you're so skeptical.
Note that an injected vaccine will never prevent you from getting a respiratory infection. What it will do is limit your likelihood of getting serious disease, and limit the duration (and amount) of viral shedding. This is because of the type of antibodies an injected vaccine elicits. In order to block a respiratory infection, you'd need a vaccine that elicits mucosal antibodies, which current vaccines don't do, but the press doesn't seem to explain this, and the CDC isn't much better.
Then there's the overall reporting, which usually lacks context. For example, what are we to conclude with regard to vaccine effectiveness or our personal risk, from random reports of a breakthrough infection fund in a patient at a local hospital? What are we to conclude from X new diagnosis in our local county? And so forth?
OTOH, the big con going on is the one that hypes rare side effects of the vaccine, or worse, makes them up, and downplays the effectiveness of the vaccines. No vaccine is perfect, but in this case they're miles ahead of the disease.
Daniel Kahneman won the Nobel Prize a few years ago for pioneering work, along with Amos Tversky, showing how poor most folks are with regard to statistical events, and all things infection, especially Covid, are statistical. (Their first seminal paper was published while I was in grad school years ago, and was one of the most fascinating I ever read. See https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/....185.4157.1124 ) Many news reporters are no better than the public, and mis/dis-information mongers are skilled at using our built in bias errors for statistical events. So we have the current mess we're in, where good folks like you are misled by bad reporting, or worse.
The Pfizer vaccine does produce mucosal antibodies:
Con game aside, the CDC statistics show over 800,000 adverse reactions to covid vaccines and over 20,000 deaths. The CDC historically grossly underreports numbers by up to 90%. Hence actual real numbers are way higher. So weighing the risk of the vaccine vs actually getting the virus , having mild to no symptoms, and the 99% recovery rate makes avoiding them a no brainer.
Only "conspiracy" is the pharma-controlled media's failure to report the above.
I presume you are referring to reports to VAERS.
Your failure to link to the numbers you are claiming and to make it clear that you are referencing VAERS, without including a statement that VAERS reports are not proof of causation, is being deliberately misleading.
I have seen no evidence that under reporting specifically for the covid vaccines is 90%.
It seems to me that they are in a con to convince us the vaccines do some function of which they simply do not do.
There will come a day when 100% of the population has been vaccinated. On that day, COVID will still be here. Passed back and forth from vaccinated person to vaccinated person.
I do not see any herd immunity happening.
I do not see the vaccines as lending anyone any greater ability to shield from getting the virus.
But then again I grew up in an era where the government tried its hardest to convince us that marijuana would convert us to communism.
But ALL the governments are in on it? The one where I am legalized marijuana.
The people who were the government in that era you speak of are dead now.
I know that I am extremely fortunate the Anthrax vaccine experiment turned out be such an Ooops, and none of the guinea pigs have had any outstanding reactions.
I know that I am extremely fortunate the Anthrax vaccine experiment turned out be such an Ooops, and none of the guinea pigs have had any outstanding reactions.
Um, I am almost as old as you are. I am aware of the experiments you linked and others. I doubt there is an American alive who doesn't know about Tuskegee by now.
These things were carried out in small groups and in secret and were in the USA. I know other countries have done similar things, but if you are going to start going off on the secret one-world government cabal Illuminati lizard people shtick, I already have a brother like that, so no thanks!
Youngest son has covid, double vaxed but his GF is un vaxxed.
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I know that I am extremely fortunate the Anthrax vaccine experiment turned out be such an Ooops, and none of the guinea pigs have had any outstanding reactions.
I'm including to Wikipedia's article on the Tuskegee syphilis study. It appears it was started in 1932 and ended in 1972. Interestingly, the reason it was ended is because some of the experts in the study realized it was not ethical to not treat those infected with syphilis with penicillin. In other words, the experts "blew the whistle on themselves".
This study constantly comes up in vaccine debates and is supposed be a reason "why we cannot trust government". Never mind that it was begun ninety years ago and ended just about fifty years ago. Medical ethics--like anything else--is an evolving field. It speaks less about "government" than it simply does about changing notions of ethics. For example, years ago it was not thought necessary for a physician to tell a patient that they were terminally ill. Informed consent was poorly understood and many physicians did not inform patients of side effects of some types of treatments and medications. I'll also add since the patients in the study were all or mostly African American it speaks volumes about the amount of discrimination that this group encountered. Because rights for all groups are now taken for granted I am skeptical anything like this could ever happen again.
Frankly, I think we have learned well the lesson of Tuskegee and its one reason why you have to fill out and sign endless paperwork when you to the doctor's office for just about anything.
Honestly, if Tuskegee is going to come up every time there is a new medication or vaccination approved for use in this country we might just as well give up. The lesson from Tuskegee is the need for informed consent. The lesson is not to avoid all vaccines and treatments that government agencies believe are appropriate.
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