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In different countries, different "out-groups" are the "bad guys"...In the United States AAs are the "bad guys" In Canada I think it is the Jamaicans, in Britain it is the West Indians and Pakistanis...In France, it is the immigrants from the former
French speaking colonies and their descendants who were born in France, but not seen as really French. In my experience in Western Europe as an AA. I was seen as an AMERICAN (once I opened my mouth and explained myself)...
In southern Spain, people kept asking me if I was from Algeria? for some reason. In Madrid, a Black African man was so
happy to see me on the street, as was another random AA on the street in Madrid who came up and introduced himself as
being from Chicago.
The same people are perceived differently in different countries.
In different countries, different "out-groups" are the "bad guys"...In the United States AAs are the "bad guys" In Canada I think it is the Jamaicans, in Britain it is the West Indians and Pakistanis...In France, it is the immigrants from the former
French speaking colonies and their descendants who were born in France, but not seen as really French. In my experience in Western Europe as an AA. I was seen as an AMERICAN (once I opened my mouth and explained myself)...
In southern Spain, people kept asking me if I was from Algeria? for some reason. In Madrid, a Black African man was so
happy to see me on the street, as was another random AA on the street in Madrid who came up and introduced himself as
being from Chicago.
The same people are perceived differently in different countries.
In fact many Europeans prefer AAs to white Americans as they see less of that "Ugly American" arrogance. Of course the AAs in Europe tend to be either educated tourists or people in the military and black military personnel cannot afford to behave badly as the punishments are more severe than it is for whites.
In fact many Europeans prefer AAs to white Americans as they see less of that "Ugly American" arrogance. Of course the AAs in Europe tend to be either educated tourists or people in the military and black military personnel cannot afford to behave badly as the punishments are more severe than it is for whites.
I got the same reaction with friends I had from Pakistan, We were at an informal get together once and one
guy from Pakistan was very anti-American in his conversation, one other guy got his attention and said
"Cool It there is an American citizen here!" (as I was the only American there) The guy then said "Oh him?
he is NOT a CLASSICAL American, he is Third World of America."
I also remember going to a function given by French speaking West Africans on campus and we were all sitting at one table and one guy starts speaking to me in French..I said, "Time out" He said , "Oh, I forgot you were American."
The Africans who come to the USA, either as students or as immigrants, are the most educated of that continent so a comparison between them and other black groups living in the USA makes no sense.
In fact in Paris there is the totally opposite impression with the African immigrants being maligned and the African American professionals and artists thought well of.
It's hard for Americans to get visas to remain in Europe long term, and those that do tend to be highly educated and skilled and/or talented artists or graduate students.
Because of colonial ties, refugee policy and because Europe is close, it's just a lot easier for poor Africans and Middle Easterners to get to Europe than the US. So the Africans that get visas to the US are much more likely to be professionals, and there is definitely a different dynamic. Many of Africans at top American universities are the children of African CEOs, high level corporate, government, or military officials. Of course there are poor African immigrants to the US, just at lower levels than to Europe.
African immigrants tend to be bilingual if not multilingual, and this is true even of the poor. Bilingualism and multilingualism have positive cognitive effects.
It's hard for Americans to get visas to remain in Europe long term, and those that do tend to be highly educated and skilled and/or talented artists or graduate students.
Because of colonial ties, refugee policy and because Europe is close, it's just a lot easier for poor Africans and Middle Easterners to get to Europe than the US. So the Africans that get visas to the US are much more likely to be professionals, and there is definitely a different dynamic. Many of Africans at top American universities are the children of African CEOs, high level corporate, government, or military officials. Of course there are poor African immigrants to the US, just at lower levels than to Europe.
African immigrants tend to be bilingual if not multilingual, and this is true even of the poor. Bilingualism and multilingualism have positive cognitive effects.
I agree, great point that is often overlooked in Africans "vs." African-Americans, people talk about the
cultural clashes but the CLASS issue is overlooked...Most of the guys I went to school with from Africa and
were friends with, their parents were working in high levels of government or in business or if not, they were
the cream of the crop of their class.
So if you have "Kojo" who is going to medical school at Columbia whose Dad is a diplomat at the U.N.
meeting "Pookie" from the Bronx. Then you may have an Oil and Water don't mix issue due to culture and
class.
Most of the guys I know who came here told me they came here to get educated to go back and develop
the country. One of the guys I went to school with is now an Ambassador to several countries.
This is an interesting thread reading as a white Polish-decent guy....
Most European whites feel absolutely no connection to white Americans unless they are from the same ethnic background, and even then, there is a huge disconnect many times (Italians vs Italian Americans, Irish vs Irish Americans, even many second/third generation Polish, including myself, are becoming completely Americanized and don't share a lot in common with Polish).
I think the obvious stronger bond between African Americans and Africans, at least in the US, is that they are both seen as "black" by many, and with that comes the racist overtones of given this country's history, that they will both likely experience. Also, on a world stage, Africans seem to be the group most looked down upon/stereotyped, and in the US, African Americans are most stereotyped/ discriminated, so there is some commonality in struggle. The media doesn't help, as it seems to only perpetuate certain images of blacks (either negative, athletes, or entertainers).
As an outsider, it's seems like Africans don't like African Americans who perpetuate the negative stereotypes, because as has been mentioned, many Africans who come to the US are usually the cream of the crop and won't have much in common with people like that. Also, since many Americans view all Africans/African Americans as "black," they probably feel that some African Americans will indirectly affect how people perceive them. On the flip side, it seems like African Americans feel disrespected by Africans.
I agree, great point that is often overlooked in Africans "vs." African-Americans, people talk about the
cultural clashes but the CLASS issue is overlooked...Most of the guys I went to school with from Africa and
were friends with, their parents were working in high levels of government or in business or if not, they were
the cream of the crop of their class.
So if you have "Kojo" who is going to medical school at Columbia whose Dad is a diplomat at the U.N.
meeting "Pookie" from the Bronx. Then you may have an Oil and Water don't mix issue due to culture and
class.
Most of the guys I know who came here told me they came here to get educated to go back and develop
the country. One of the guys I went to school with is now an Ambassador to several countries.
Good points.
I think most Africans that come to the U.S. have little exposure to elite well-connected African Americans. Most of their connections come from other Africans, whites and various groups of Asians. Cotillions, Jack & Jill, Boule etc., are institutions where your family name matters just as much if not more than your college degrees or bank account. Most Africans can't access these social circles and some don't even know they exist. The class differences in the black community are barely understood by native white Americans let alone 1st generation immigrants.
I'd also guess that most Africans immigrate to large cities in the U.S., where you rarely see wide swaths of impoverished whites. Most black Americans have roots in rural (southern) America, so we, or at least our parents/grandparents have grown up around poor white people. Africans go to big cities where the poor people are mostly black and brown, so it can affect your perception and make you wonder "how come they don't do better?" Race and class are intertwined here, and many immigrants don't fully understand this. They've learned American history as it was presented to them by white scholars but don't always have the complete picture. Lynching, the Black Codes, Jim Crow, high rates of black military participation in every American war, Black Wall Street, Rosewood, the Tulsa Riots etc., tend to get glossed over unless you do intensive research. The connection between an African's ability to freely immigrate and attend American schools versus the sacrifice made by many blacks isn't always readily understood. The U.S. exists in large part because black people fought the British, the Confederates, the Germans and others.
This is an interesting thread reading as a white Polish-decent guy....
Most European whites feel absolutely no connection to white Americans unless they are from the same ethnic background, and even then, there is a huge disconnect many times (Italians vs Italian Americans, Irish vs Irish Americans, even many second/third generation Polish, including myself, are becoming completely Americanized and don't share a lot in common with Polish).
I think the obvious stronger bond between African Americans and Africans, at least in the US, is that they are both seen as "black" by many, and with that comes the racist overtones of given this country's history, that they will both likely experience. Also, on a world stage, Africans seem to be the group most looked down upon/stereotyped, and in the US, African Americans are most stereotyped/ discriminated, so there is some commonality in struggle. The media doesn't help, as it seems to only perpetuate certain images of blacks (either negative, athletes, or entertainers).
As an outsider, it's seems like Africans don't like African Americans who perpetuate the negative stereotypes, because as has been mentioned, many Africans who come to the US are usually the cream of the crop and won't have much in common with people like that. Also, since many Americans view all Africans/African Americans as "black," they probably feel that some African Americans will indirectly affect how people perceive them. On the flip side, it seems like African Americans feel disrespected by Africans.
Just my honest perceptions.
Agreed.
There are lots of cream-of-the-crop black Americans but most Africans don't travel in those social circles. A successful African immigrant is far more likely to blend with other Africans or even whites. All immigrant groups are taught to see the country through a white American narrative and it takes lots of exposure to black Americans before they start to see a clearer picture. It's why the average immigrant is far more familiar with the black underclass than they are with the largely rural white underclass. White poverty, drugs, crime etc in Appalachia, the Rust Belt, the deep South is not given much shine in the media and is virtually invisible to a 1st generation immigrant arrives in D.C., New York City or Houston.
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