U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Americas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-21-2014, 09:18 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,928,652 times
Reputation: 3799

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycjowww View Post
I'm lost here. Not sure what your trying to say here. Jamaica is 90 percent Afro plain and simple. I'm simply lost because Jamaica alongside with Haiti are two of the blackest nations in the Caribbean.

When I look at videos of Jamaica there is nothing in yor statement that tells me otherwise.

It's not like Jamaicans look like African Americans, if that's what you're trying to say?

I think I have made my point clearly. Is there is something embarrassing about Haiti's history, which is quite unique, giving rise to the most African culture in the Caribbean.....?

FACT: Haiti had a slave rebellion which succeeded. The rest of us didn't have successful slave rebellions, and this clearly has given rise to differences.

 
Old 06-22-2014, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 642,204 times
Reputation: 598
Default Haitian Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
What company does he own? What is his estimated worth?

I'm sure it must be in the billions of dollars.
Gilbert Bigio Group | gbgroup.comGilbert Bigio Group

What doesn't he have his hands in!?!?

He's even the de facto leader of the Haitian Jewish community. I read an article a while back about how all the Jews in PAP and surrounding areas come to his house for religious gatherings. Something about how the community is so much smaller than it used to be, as well. Interesting stuff.

Bigio doesn't have his net worth listed...transparency isn't really a thing among Haitians. I can tell you that he does have a giant factory worth millions over looking Cite-Soleil though. I linked an article, ignore the partisan overtones of it. The writer mentions the Mevs, Brandts, Acras and Madsen families as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linked Article
One need not look very far to see where Gilbert Bigio's interests lie in relation to Cite Soleil. According to his own company's web site his family maintains controlling interests in sixteen of Haiti's largest companies. They are also the largest Haitian partner in the wireless communications giant Digicel, a mammoth company based in Ireland that has nearly cornered the cellular market in the Caribbean. Bigio's family is not merely wealthy amidst a sea of poverty stricken residents in Haiti, his family represents the Über-wealthy who have benefited most since Aristide's second ouster in 2004.
Haiti's wealthy prosper while the poor decline - January 29, 2008
 
Old 06-22-2014, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 642,204 times
Reputation: 598
Default Clifford Brandt

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Is this guy part of the Bigio family too?


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xhhZog9LQV...randtuncle.jpg
Nope, that's Clifford Brandt. To be honest; i'm surprised Bigio is worth more than that guys family. The Brandt family is entrenched in the Haitian 'One Percent'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linked Article
The son of the affluent Fritz Brandt, Clifford Brandt, was arrested by the National Police of Haiti for his involvement in the kidnapping of two children on October 16 as part of a larger kidnapping network in Haiti.
Clifford Brandt under arrest | Haiti News Plus (HN+)
 
Old 06-22-2014, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 642,204 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I think I have made my point clearly. Is there is something embarrassing about Haiti's history, which is quite unique, giving rise to the most African culture in the Caribbean.....?

FACT: Haiti had a slave rebellion which succeeded. The rest of us didn't have successful slave rebellions, and this clearly has given rise to differences.
I'm not saying that Haitians aren't more African compared to other LA nations (Afro-Brazilians being a worthy debate). But Jamaica? Really? Haitians don't have religions based on going back to a African promise Land. Rastafarianism revolves around Selassie (an African emperor) being a Black Messiah.

The notorious Boukman of Haitian Lore that started the Haitian Uprising in the North was a runaway Maroon from Jamaica. Jamaica had slave rebellions well before the Haitians. Almost succeeded there as well. Didn't work until they linked up with the recently imported slaves from Africa around the areas surround Cap-Francais (Cap-Haiten/Okap).

Marcus Garvey who brought the 'Back to Africa' movement to America was also of Jamaican Descent.

Saying that Haiti is the most "African" culture in the Caribbean is akin to saying that USA is the most "European culture" in the Americas or Mexico is the most "Aboriginal American culture" in the Americas. Three of the oldest nations in the Western Hemisphere. I'm pretty sure we have our own established identities by now.

That's why when the President of Senegal offered a plan to Haitians that would offer land after the Earthquake, even the tent people balked. Haitian slaves were from the areas that are today Benin, Togo, and Ghana anyway. So there is no "Homeland in Africa" to us, like Anglo-West Indians. Original Haitian slaves already came from varying tribes. Add in Black immigration and you have a medley of unidentified ethnicities. Zambos (Indian-Black) are also under-counted and invisible. So the connection to African Culture is gone. Descended from it, for sure. But that's an umbrella term.

The differences among the slaves native tongues is why Haitian Creole came into existence; it wasn't only to communicate with slave masters/drivers. It was a common tongue for the slaves to communicate as well. Meanwhile Jamaican slaves were mostly Ashanti in origin and I've heard in some pockets African tongues are still spoken. English is spoken as the official language, Patois in general company(?). The African in Patois is mostly Akan in orgin. Big difference for sure.

Haiti is embroiled in a Haitian Creole/French Creole/French battle. Two of which are indigenous (post Arawak/Taino) to our established half of the Island (each of the two with regional dialects) and our people.

The Voodoo practiced in the North (Kongo influenced) is different from other parts; mostly about Taino and Catholic incorporation.

The 'Rest of you' also were not free from colonizers until a lot later as well. Haiti has a different history but it's not 'Africa in the Caribbean'. Many Black people came to Haiti over time from the Xamayca Island before it was a free Jamaican nation. Over time their culture and mannerisms have come into Haitian culture as well (mostly near Okap, Limbe, and small islands up North).

Surely, as there is nothing wrong with having African descent; how can you say one is more African relative to the other?

Also, just pointing out this thread is supposed to be about White Haitians. I don't know why you're trying to prove how "African" Haiti is compared to Jamaica in it........
 
Old 06-22-2014, 01:28 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,928,652 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassNative2891 View Post
. I don't know why you're trying to prove how "African" Haiti is compared to Jamaica in it........

Nothing for me to prove as this is so obviously the case. Indeed the very fact that there are groups in Jamaica seeking a "mystical" Africa, and not in Haiti, proves this. Haitians don't have to seek what is so plainly there.
 
Old 06-22-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 642,204 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Nothing for me to prove as this is so obviously the case. Indeed the very fact that there are groups in Jamaica seeking a "mystical" Africa, and not in Haiti, proves this. Haitians don't have to seek what is so plainly there.

They aren't seeking a mystical(?) Africa, they're continuing African traditions and yearning to be in what they consider their "Motherland". Haitians generally consider Haiti their motherland; unless born abroad or etc. Haiti isn't a new nation.

Some Haitians even have the nerve to claim France as their motherland, even if it was one Great-Grandmother. But you don't hear many Haitians trying to emulate any African cultural traditions or icons. France was much more suffocating as a cultural (and oppressive) force than the British.

But anyway, great take on a debate to be had in another thread. Which I wouldn't even participate in. Do Dominicans and Puerto Ricans debate about who is more "Spanish"?

Still don't understand why you came to a thread about "White Haitians" to provide your input on how Jamaicans aren't really Black compared to Haitians. If you don't mind me asking, are you a White or Asian Jamaican?
 
Old 06-23-2014, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY $$$
6,836 posts, read 12,851,248 times
Reputation: 1582
The mindset that caribny has about Jamaicans is similar to the Jamaicans you see in New York City. It's so bad that Jamaicans here actually think they resemble Trinidadians LMAO.
 
Old 06-23-2014, 10:52 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,928,652 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycjowww View Post
The mindset that caribny has about Jamaicans is similar to the Jamaicans you see in New York City. It's so bad that Jamaicans here actually think they resemble Trinidadians LMAO.
Never met a Jamaican who wants to look like a Trini. Jamaicans think that they are the best and that Trinidad is a "small" island lucky to have oil.

It is sad that some are embarrassed by the fact that the unique history of Haiti has left them the most African of all Caribbean people. The plantation system ended earlier, and when it ended a sizeable % of the population were African born. Clearly miscegenation with light skinned peoples would have been more limited as many reverted to subsistence peasantry until the last generation or two.

Else where the unequal relationships between light skinned masters and dark skinned "slaves" (up to WWII conditions for the workers were scarcely better than for the slaves) continued well into the 20th century, resulting of course in contacts between these groups, coerced or otherwise.

Apparently this embarrasses some people who seem to wish that Haiti wasn't so African, so desperately grasp at straws to prove so.
 
Old 06-23-2014, 10:53 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,928,652 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassNative2891 View Post

Still don't understand why you came to a thread about "White Haitians" to provide your input on how Jamaicans aren't really Black compared to Haitians. If you don't mind me asking, are you a White or Asian Jamaican?

Did I say that Jamaicans aren't black? 92% are indeed black. I think that it is YOU who wish that Haitians weren't so "African". Are you a mulatto Haitian who finds this embarrassing?
 
Old 06-23-2014, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 642,204 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Did I say that Jamaicans aren't black? 92% are indeed black. I think that it is YOU who wish that Haitians weren't so "African". Are you a mulatto Haitian who finds this embarrassing?
Lol why are trying to debate about Africaness on a thread about white Haitians? Start one about the African Culture in the Caribbean if it suites you.

Culturally the most 'African' nation in the Americas is Brazil and amongst Caribbean peoples it's Afro-Cubans. A few others are known to practice actual African traditions in the Americas. Haitians aren't one of them. It's kind of insulting that you're trying to tell us what our culture is honestly.

Like I said calling a Haitian, African is like calling a American , European. Spin off cultures that are very much unique and their OWN. If Jamaicans or other nationalities are all about African traditions great; we don't really have any.

Also anthropology studies have shown the average Jamaican would be 68% African descent, 92% is just the amount of the population with ANY African blood. I'll PM the link of you want. Ethnically Haitians are the most African descent, definitely not culturally though. There is a difference.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Americas
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top