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Old 07-18-2010, 07:20 AM
 
1,220 posts, read 780,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
You know, many sincere folks cannot comprehend the idea of a Loving God sending anyone to an eternal place of fire and doom. People don't like to hear about hell. Yet, it's the truth of God Himself.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matthew 7:13-14).

But I'm here to tell you that if Jesus is not your personal Savior, you are on your way to hell my friend.

He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

Did you know that if you do not belong to Jesus Christ you belong to Satan? You don't have to be a card carrying Satanist to serve Satan. You don't have to be a murderer, drunkard or drug addict either. All you have to do is ignore Jesus Christ. If you don't have Jesus today, you are deceived and hell bound, though this may sound harsh, it is true friend. God loves you and wants to save you; He asks nothing in return.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

How many times have I heard someone say, "A loving God wouldn't put His creation in hell." I have news for you, friend; God doesn't put anyone in hell--their sin of unbelief puts them there! Hell was created for the devil and his angels.....

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. (Matthew 25:41)

Men and women go to hell because they choose the devil's way and reject the Lord Jesus Christ! God is holy and cannot allow any sin into His kingdom. As a result, when people die in their sins they are forever banished from the presence of God to a place called hell.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev. 20:10)

God does not want you in hell! Jesus came to save you from that horrible place! Don't lie and say God puts people in hell! Repent, confess, believe, get right with Jesus and you won't go there!

"As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die." (Ezekiel 33:11)

The Lord is...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

The Bible says that hell is never full. Friends, either you will repent from your unbelief by turning in faith to the Lord Jesus Christ; or you will burn in hell-fire for all eternity for your sins. No, this is not a popular teaching; but, it is Biblical. Regardless of whether you believe it or not, hell exists!

God does not want this to happen. You say, "But I don't believe in hell." Unbelievers are condemned already, "He that believeth not is condemned already..." (John 3:36). No need to argue about this. God said hell is real, your argument is with Him and you won't win. Won't you turn, before it too late?


Your sister in Christ Jesus

Betsey
Dear one
God is a God of Love...1(John)4:8...All Bible teaching must reflect this characteristic of God.

WHEN WILL HELL-FIRE BURN?
1. Matthew 13:36-43;49,50...The wicked are punished at the end of the world.
2. 2 Peter 2:9...The wicked are "reserved" until the judgment day.
3. Revelation 20:11-15...The final phase of the judgment will occur at the second resurrection where the wicked will be sentenced and receive their final "reward" in the lake of fire at the end of the world.

WHERE WILL HELL-FIRE BURN?
1. Proverbs 11:31...The wicked will be punished on earth, just as the righteous will receive their reward on this earth(Matt. 5:5).
2. Deuteronomy 32:22...Hell-fire will burn the earth with everything in it, and even burn the mountains.
3. 2 Peter 3:7...God is keeping it all in store to burn at the end of the world (vs. 10-13). The earth, and all that is in it will be burned up, and God will then create a new heaven and earth.
4. Revelation 21:1-5...A picture of the new earth

HOW LONG WILL HELL-FIRE BURN?
1. Romans 6:23...The wages of sin is death (not everlasting life in hell-fire).
2. Psalm 37:9-11...The wicked will cease to exist.
3. Psalm 37:20...The wicked shall perish, and consume into smoke.
4. Psalm 68:2...The wicked shall perish as wax before a fire.
5. Psalm 104:35...Sinners will be consumed, and the wicked shall be no more.
6.Malachi 4:1-3...The wicked will be as stubble, the fire shall burn them up, and they will be ashes under our feet in the day that God does this.
7. Revelation 20:9...As the wicked try to overtake the holy city, fire comes down from God out of heaven, and devours the (vs. 14); this is the second death. The second death is never called a "sleep" as the first death is because there will never be a resurrection from it. It will be eternal annihilation.
8. Ezekiel 28:18,19...The devil will also be devoured in the lake of fire. He will be brought to ashes, and will never be any more.

REVELATION 20:10-"FOR EVER AND EVER"
Revelation 20:9 says the fire devours the wicked. Verse 10 seems to say the fire goes on, and on. How long is "forever, and ever?" The word that is translated "forever" in the English is a word that becomes relative to that which it is describing. For example, in Jonah 2:6, "for ever" was only for three days, and three nights. 1 Samuel 1:22,28 shows us that "for ever" means as long as Samuel lived. In Psalm 48:14, "for ever and ever" means until death. Isaiah 47:14 says when the fire burns the wicked as stubble, and goes out, there won't be a coal to warm yourself at, or any fire at all. The word literally means "for an age." Therefore the word in the original Greek and Hebrew translated as "forever" is a term that is to be understood in the context of what is being described in the plain text of scripture. Fifty-six times in the old testament the term "forever" was applied to some one, or some thing that had a definite end.

MARK 9:43,44-"UNQUENCHABLE FIRE"
In Jeremiah 17:27 God said if people refused to obey, He would burn Jerusalem with unquenchable fire. 2 Chronicles 36:19-21 is very descriptive of this historical fact! But is Jerusalem still burning? No!!! "Unquenchable" simply means that when God sets something on fire it's beyond anyone's power to quench it while it burns, and it will accomplish the purpose that God has determined for it.

MATTHEW 25:41-46-EVERLASTING FIRE AND PUNISHMENT
Jude 1:7 says Sodom, and Gomorrah burned with eternal fire. They are not burning now though. 2 Peter 2:6 says these cities burned to ashes as an example of what will happen to the wicked at the end of the world. The punishment is everlasting in its effect or consequences, but not in the duration of the the time of the burning. (Compare the usage of the word "eternal" in Jude 7 with the same word in Hebrews 5:9 and Hebrews 6:2). It is obvious that the word "eternal" is is explicitly referring to the result of the act rather than the duration of the act itself.

This is a warning to any one preaching a gospel different from the one Christ commanded us to give to those in need of it, because to whom much is given, much is required. The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you joy...

 
Old 07-18-2010, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,951 posts, read 34,295,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I know. But it's really for the benefit of those reading it who do care about the truth. I don't waste my time anymore endlessly going back and forth with those who obviously reject the truth. I'll just make my statement and leave it at that. People will believe what they want to.
That's good advice. It is a waste of time, because that are blind to the truth.

What bothers me that they teach a false teaching and if people believe it, they will pay the penalty for it. They think God's rules are meaningless, and God will back down on his word when it comes to keeping His promise.

1 Timothy 1:7-11 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law[a] is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
 
Old 07-18-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,848,238 times
Reputation: 1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Me three, they've heard and they KNOW, they're WITHOUT an excuse! Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. (Ezekiel 3: 19) They've been warned!

And me four! After having been involved in a few lengthy debates on the forum, I've come to realize it's sometimes best to just say what I believe, and then let it go at that. (especially if I suspect my belief may be incorrect) Besides, 99% of the time our arguing about things comes to no avail anyway. If someone wants to disagree, then that's fine. If someone doesn't believe a portion of the Bible, and wants to argue about it, then I see that as their problem, not mine...some people simply won't receive correction. As the saying goes: "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force them to drink".

We see a wide assortment of beliefs and doctrine on this forum, and a LOT of it is so "off the wall" and un-Biblical. Let the reader beware, discern, and sort out for themselves the gems from the trash...because there is an awful lot of unsound doctrine taught by teachers.

Teachers? Yes: "teachers". They may not refer to themselves as such, but they are here on the forum aplenty, posting doctrine. Sometimes it's Biblical, and sometimes it's not...therefore let the reader beware.

The warning to "teachers", according to the Bible, is that they will see a harsher punishment. (that is: if they teach not the truth)

James 3
1My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation...

Greater condemnation? Yes...greater...


Bud
 
Old 07-18-2010, 06:36 PM
 
21,804 posts, read 16,670,340 times
Reputation: 8649
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewitness View Post
Dear one
God is a God of Love...1(John)4:8...All Bible teaching must reflect this characteristic of God.

WHEN WILL HELL-FIRE BURN?
1. Matthew 13:36-43;49,50...The wicked are punished at the end of the world.
2. 2 Peter 2:9...The wicked are "reserved" until the judgment day.
3. Revelation 20:11-15...The final phase of the judgment will occur at the second resurrection where the wicked will be sentenced and receive their final "reward" in the lake of fire at the end of the world.

WHERE WILL HELL-FIRE BURN?
1. Proverbs 11:31...The wicked will be punished on earth, just as the righteous will receive their reward on this earth(Matt. 5:5).
2. Deuteronomy 32:22...Hell-fire will burn the earth with everything in it, and even burn the mountains.
3. 2 Peter 3:7...God is keeping it all in store to burn at the end of the world (vs. 10-13). The earth, and all that is in it will be burned up, and God will then create a new heaven and earth.
4. Revelation 21:1-5...A picture of the new earth

Annihilationism is a false doctrne and is easily refuted.

Deuteronomy 32:22 'For a fire is kindled in My anger, And burns to the lowest part of Sheol, And consumes the earth with its yield, And sets on fire the foundations of the mountains.' This passage (Deut 32) simply addresses the rebellion of Israel and verse 22 states that great and terrible judgment will be inflicted on Israel as a result. The judgments of God are often spoken of under the name of 'fire.' The verses following verse 22 describe the actual judgments that God inflicted on Israel for their disobedience. The passage has nothing to do with the lake of fire.

2 Peter 3:7 'But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.' At the end of the Millennium, God will destroy the present heavens and earth and create a new heavens and earth. But also, all unbelievers will have been resurrected out of Hades and stood before Christ at the Great White Throne judgment. Revelation 20:11-15. Also Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire at this time. Revelation 20:10.

Revelation 20:14 says 'And death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.' The second death is simply spiritual death which is separation from God in time (no relationship with God), perpetuated into eternal separation from God in the lake of fire. A comparison of Rev. 19:20 with Rev 20:10 shows that there is no annihilation. After 1000 years in the lake of fire, both the beast and the false prophet are still there, personally existing in conscious torment.

Furthermore, Rev 20:10 says that they shall be tormented day and night forever and ever. First, in order to be tormented, they have to be existing and conscious. Second, the words used are 'forever and ever'. In the Greek it reads, 'eis tous aionas ton aionon,' which is 'to the ages of the ages' or 'forever and ever'. It is the emphatic use of the word aionos and is the strongest way of expressing eternity. These same words are used of God in Revelation 4:9-10; 10:6; 15:7; 1 Peter 4:11 and other places to speak of things that are clearly eternal in the sense of unending.


Quote:
HOW LONG WILL HELL-FIRE BURN?
1. Romans 6:23...The wages of sin is death (not everlasting life in hell-fire).
The wages of sin is death. Both spiritual death which is separation from God in time, and physical death are in view. God told Adam as recorded in Gen 2:17 that if he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, 'dying you shall die.' That is how it reads in the Greek. 'Dying' refers to spiritual death which is loss of relationship with God-separation from God. That happened immediately when Adam ate the fruit. 'Die' refers to physical death and happened many hundreds of years later for Adam. Thereafter, everyone is born physically alive but spiritually dead. If a person dies physically without receiving Christ as Savior, he remains spiritually dead throughout all eternity. The penalty for sin is both physical death and spiritual death. And spiritual death is not cessation of existence, it is separation from God.




Quote:
2. Psalm 37:9-11...The wicked will cease to exist.
3. Psalm 37:20...The wicked shall perish, and consume into smoke.
4. Psalm 68:2...The wicked shall perish as wax before a fire.
5. Psalm 104:35...Sinners will be consumed, and the wicked shall be no more.
The Hebrew word for perish is abad. Strong's number H0006. And while it can be translated as annihilate, it is also translated in other ways as well. As seen below.

annihilate (2), annihilated (1), been lost (1), broken (1), corrupts (1), destroy (33), destroyed (15), destroying (2), destroys (2), destruction (2), dying (2), fail (1), fails (1), give up as lost (1), lacking (1), lost (12), make vanish (1), makes to perish (1), no (2), obliterate (1), perish (61), perished (16), perishes (7), perishing (2), ruined (4), surely perish (3), take (1), utterly destroy (1), wandering (1), wastes (1), wiped (1).


The Greek word for perish is apollumi. Strong's number G622

1) to destroy

a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin

b) render useless

c) to kill

d) to declare that one must be put to death

e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell

f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed

2) to destroy

a) to lose

The following is from the P-R-E-C-E-P-T*** A-U-S-T-I-N website.

Perish (622) Apollumi from apo = away from or wholly + olethros = state of utter ruin <> ollumi = to destroy uttery but not caused to cease to exist.

Apollumi as it relates to men, is not the loss of being per se, but is the loss of well-being. It means to ruin so that the person (or thing) ruined can no longer serve the use for which he (it) was designed. To render useless. The gospel promises everlasting life for the one who believes. The failure to possess this life will result in utter ruin and eternal uselessness (but not a cessation of existence).

Apollumi then has the basic meaning of describing that which is ruined and is no longer usable for its intended purpose.

Apollumi is the term Jesus used to speak of those who are thrown into hell (Matt. 10:28): As He makes clear elsewhere, hell is not a place or state of nothingless or unconscious existence, as is the Hindu Nirvana but is the place of everlasting torment, the place of eternal death, where there will be ''weeping and gnashing of teeth'' (Mt 13:42,50).

( Romans 2:9-12 Commentary )

Quote:
6.Malachi 4:1-3...The wicked will be as stubble, the fire shall burn them up, and they will be ashes under our feet in the day that God does this.

Malachi 4:1-3 does not speak of annhilation either. It describes physical death, not the condition of the soul after death. In Rev 14:10-11 and 20:11-15, unbelievers are seen in conscious eternal torment.

This link mentions some of the passages that are listed above and refutes that they have anything to do with annhilationism.

http://www.ses.edu/Portals/0/journal/articles/1.1Spencer.pdf (broken link)


Quote:
7. Revelation 20:9...As the wicked try to overtake the holy city, fire comes down from God out of heaven, and devours the (vs. 14); this is the second death. The second death is never called a "sleep" as the first death is because there will never be a resurrection from it. It will be eternal annihilation.


8. Ezekiel 28:18,19...The devil will also be devoured in the lake of fire. He will be brought to ashes, and will never be any more.

As already shown, both unbelieving mankind and Satan and his angels are tormented forever and ever in the lake of fire. Revelation 14:10-11; 20:10; 20:1-15. Refer back to my first comment on Rev 20:10 earlier in this post.

Quote:
REVELATION 20:10-"FOR EVER AND EVER"
Revelation 20:9 says the fire devours the wicked. Verse 10 seems to say the fire goes on, and on. How long is "forever, and ever?" The word that is translated "forever" in the English is a word that becomes relative to that which it is describing. For example, in Jonah 2:6, "for ever" was only for three days, and three nights. 1 Samuel 1:22,28 shows us that "for ever" means as long as Samuel lived. In Psalm 48:14, "for ever and ever" means until death. Isaiah 47:14 says when the fire burns the wicked as stubble, and goes out, there won't be a coal to warm yourself at, or any fire at all. The word literally means "for an age." Therefore the word in the original Greek and Hebrew translated as "forever" is a term that is to be understood in the context of what is being described in the plain text of scripture. Fifty-six times in the old testament the term "forever" was applied to some one, or some thing that had a definite end.
No, forever and ever in Psalm 48:14 does not mean until death. 'For such is God, Our God forever and ever; He will guide us until death.' First, some manuscripts read 'forever' instead of 'until death.' Second, God remains their God after death, even if the last part of the verse is talking about being guided throughout this life.

2 Corinthians 4:18 makes the distinction between things which are temporary and things which are eternal. 'While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal-Proskaira, but the things which are not seen are eternal-Aionia. Aionia is used for eternal while Proskaira is used for things which are temporary.

Quote:
MARK 9:43,44-"UNQUENCHABLE FIRE"
In Jeremiah 17:27 God said if people refused to obey, He would burn Jerusalem with unquenchable fire. 2 Chronicles 36:19-21 is very descriptive of this historical fact! But is Jerusalem still burning? No!!! "Unquenchable" simply means that when God sets something on fire it's beyond anyone's power to quench it while it burns, and it will accomplish the purpose that God has determined for it.

MATTHEW 25:41-46-EVERLASTING FIRE AND PUNISHMENT
Jude 1:7 says Sodom, and Gomorrah burned with eternal fire. They are not burning now though. 2 Peter 2:6 says these cities burned to ashes as an example of what will happen to the wicked at the end of the world. The punishment is everlasting in its effect or consequences, but not in the duration of the the time of the burning. (Compare the usage of the word "eternal" in Jude 7 with the same word in Hebrews 5:9 and Hebrews 6:2). It is obvious that the word "eternal" is is explicitly referring to the result of the act rather than the duration of the act itself.
Jude 1:7 refers to the inhabitants of the cities that are suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. It was the inhabitants of the cities that gave themselves over to fornication, and went after strange flesh. Buildings can't fornicate. People can. The inhabitants of Sodom and Gormorrah are currently in Hades in the compartment known as 'Torments', and are awaiting their final transfer to the lake of fire where they will be tormented forever.

Annihilationism is not Biblical. Unbelievers will spend all eternity in the lake of fire, as will Satan and his angels.

Flaws in the Arguments for Annihilationism

http://www.vor.org/truth/rbst/escatology13.html

Last edited by Mike555; 07-18-2010 at 07:29 PM..
 
Old 07-18-2010, 07:21 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,770,370 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The inhabitants of Sodom and Gormorrah are currently in Hades in the compartment known as 'Torments', and are awaiting their final transfer to the lake of fire where they will be tormented forever.
God is not a torturer of mankind. God IS love. God is merciful. Jesus is the Savior of the world. The lake of fire is symbolic of God's holy and just judgment.
 
Old 07-18-2010, 08:28 PM
 
40,036 posts, read 26,715,004 times
Reputation: 6047
The obsession with this hate-filled ET consequence after death is baffling. It does NOT motivate and given its supposed endurance it cannot possibly correct anything. It is entirely without purpose . . . besides being completely evil. Only an evil spirit could have created the concept and only evil spirits could truly believe it. Test what sort of Spirit you are by looking deep within your heart . . . without all the corrupt rationalizations created in the precepts and doctrines of men to present this evil as good. If in your heart of hearts you do not find it completely evil . . . your soul is in need of significant work and repentance.
 
Old 07-18-2010, 08:49 PM
 
Location: New England
32,221 posts, read 21,091,303 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I measured the gate, it's about 20feet wide but if you tuck in the mirrors on the RV I think you can still fit it in there.
How on earth did you find the narrow gate with a wise crack like that

Let me guess you followed all the other RV's that had bumper stickers stating "i found Jesus" .

I would like to know how those who find the narrow gate , when the Lord said there are none that seek after God ?.
 
Old 07-20-2010, 06:49 AM
 
1,220 posts, read 780,422 times
Reputation: 122
Default The Truth

Compartmentalizing humanity like some masonic beehive makes perfect sense only to those who think they have a planned escape route...whatever you think numerical mick...you are. The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you joy...
 
Old 07-20-2010, 06:59 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,007,507 times
Reputation: 58210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The obsession with this hate-filled ET consequence after death is baffling. It does NOT motivate and given its supposed endurance it cannot possibly correct anything. It is entirely without purpose . . . besides being completely evil. Only an evil spirit could have created the concept and only evil spirits could truly believe it. Test what sort of Spirit you are by looking deep within your heart . . . without all the corrupt rationalizations created in the precepts and doctrines of men to present this evil as good. If in your heart of hearts you do not find it completely evil . . . your soul is in need of significant work and repentance.
You used the right word Mystic....OBSESSION. It does become an obsession because of fear of lost souls burning forever in some mythical hell and it turns people into whackos. Killing and lying can be the extreme fall-out of the belief in ET. Anyone who believes in ET and says they haven't thought of killing loved ones to save them from ET is a liar. The thoughts are there, and that should be a HUGE red flag that there is something terribly, horribly wrong with the ET teaching. Wake up people!!! It's not of God and people should realize that and get to the bottom of it like I have.
 
Old 07-20-2010, 08:13 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,770,370 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Anyone who believes in ET and says they haven't thought of killing loved ones to save them from ET is a liar.
Ilene, I don't quite understand that. You might want to clarify.

A child dying before they reach the "age of accountability" would guarantee their salvation if ET and AOA were true. Even though that would be the case, I don't think people actually think about killing a loved one, as in, really contemplating it. But this does show how bizarre the belief in ET is. A child can live with the risk of someday burning forever, or die as a child and not have to risk an eternity in flames. If that were true, then God forgot to close a huge loophole when He came up with the ET plan.

Any believers in a literal lake of fire care to explain the loophole?
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