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I agree. Personally, I don't think it's possible for anyone to say their way is the right way.
Perhaps the question should be, "Does my belief system, or lack of one, harm other people?"
Exactly. I am on the side of, "I have my own beliefs, but I don't know anything 100%, and I'm not going to pretend to". That doesn't mean I won't call people out, or point out issues/errors in reasoning though. If everyone would worry more about the world, and the people living in it, instead of whatever God they happen to believe in, we would ALL be in a better place. Religious people, atheists, and everyone in between.
You haven't proposed anything that is remotely workable. Most LGBT people do not think they have a problem, therefore, no solution is necessary. One of the other members posted a list of God's marriage laws, which imply a great variety of sexuality norms. I can't figure out how a person would know which one is right.
You completely avoided answering the question put to you. People are gay, lesbian, transgendered, and many other things. They aren't going to change. Accepting these people into our communities will result in stronger relationships for them, meaning fewer partners, but it seems you don't want to do that.
The fact that you avoided answering the questions about your church probably says more than if you had answered them. Your failure to answer tells everybody reading this forum that you will not welcome them into your church, and certainly won't invite them to share your pew.
The only conclusion I can come to is that you will continue to ostracize them and try to keep them out of your own community. Sometimes, silence speaks louder than words.
As to the bold, you are 100% correct, mensa. I was talking to a man I work with the other day, who happens to be gay, but still in the closet to most people who know him, and I actually asked him why he doesn't just come out, find a man and settle down. His answer broke my heart.
He said that he couldn't. If his family found out, they would never speak to him again. He would lose a lot of his friends as well, and worries about his job if the boss finds out (Personally, I don't know why on this one as our boss is great). He said he was too scared to come out. He had personally seen people being bullied and beaten by the rednecks that live here (his words btw, not mine). He also told me a story of a friend of his from high school that had moved away from south Alabama to a more liberal area, only to be relentlessly bullied there too. So he moved again, and after a few months, had a Baptist church in the area using him as a target for everything wrong with the gay community after one of their members saw him kiss his boyfriend near their church...
To people like Jeff, I would point to instances like this (and the MILLIONS of others), to PROVE, without a shadow of doubt, that people like them are the #1 cause of a lot of issues the gay community faces. I was lucky, because my parents are understanding, I am bi, and I am a female. We face far less issues than men. At one point, I was at a high school party, and kissed my then girlfriend in the typical drunken fashion, only to have the same idiots that beat up and bully the gay boys at the school cheer us on...
It is very telling that you rarely, if ever, hear these fundies talking about lesbians, and instead focus on gay men. The PROVES, once again, that this isn't about them being gay, but what they imagine them doing in the bedroom. If they could get over that, and worry about themselves, the straight and gay communities would be better off.
You haven't proposed anything that is remotely workable. Most LGBT people do not think they have a problem, therefore, no solution is necessary. One of the other members posted a list of God's marriage laws, which imply a great variety of sexuality norms. I can't figure out how a person would know which one is right.
Then don't ask me questions and then claim there is no solution. That tells me that you just want to argue. I addressed the list of God's laws perfectly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
You completely avoided answering the question put to you. People are gay, lesbian, transgendered, and many other things. They aren't going to change. Accepting these people into our communities will result in stronger relationships for them, meaning fewer partners, but it seems you don't want to do that.
The only thing I want is for them to stop forcing Christian businesses to get involved with gay marriage. It was a complete lie when your side sat here and claimed that legalizing gay marriage would have ZERO affect on Christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
The fact that you avoided answering the questions about your church probably says more than if you had answered them. Your failure to answer tells everybody reading this forum that you will not welcome them into your church, and certainly won't invite them to share your pew.
It was a pointless question. Some kind of thinly veiled attempt to shame me. Of course, I welcome anyone to our church as long as they are not seeking to do harm. Maybe I chose not to answer to see if you would apply false assumptions which of course, you did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
The only conclusion I can come to is that you will continue to ostracize them and try to keep them out of your own community. Sometimes, silence speaks louder than words.
Once again, how does the OP in any way have to do with my personal character?
The only thing I want is for them to stop forcing Christian businesses to get involved with gay marriage. It was a complete lie when your side sat here and claimed that legalizing gay marriage would have ZERO affect on Christians.
It doesn't affect you in any way, Jeff. Only in your mind. And if the God you believe in is so weak that he would judge a Christian baker for baking a cake for a customer because they are gay and getting married, then your version of God is simply sad. It would mean that he does not judge people based off of how they live, but on how they discriminate. That is just... pathetic.
It is completely exclusively. The two can not become one if there are more than two. If God approved of polygamy, why would He warn against it in another verse? All you are doing is cherry picking to create a false narrative.
Why did god award many of the OT individuals with multiple wives, and blessed those unions?
Why did god award many of the OT individuals with multiple wives, and blessed those unions?
To keep the women from dying... duh...
That's what he has said in the past anyways. That without all those marriages and rape marriages, and women taken by soldiers, the women would have just died. According to him, they had to have a man to survive, instead of, I don't know, treating women like normal people and allowing them to flourish on their own, they forced them into slavery, essentially, so they wouldn't starve.
Then don't ask me questions and then claim there is no solution. That tells me that you just want to argue. I addressed the list of God's laws perfectly.
The only thing I want is for them to stop forcing Christian businesses to get involved with gay marriage. It was a complete lie when your side sat here and claimed that legalizing gay marriage would have ZERO affect on Christians.
It was a pointless question. Some kind of thinly veiled attempt to shame me. Of course, I welcome anyone to our church as long as they are not seeking to do harm. Maybe I chose not to answer to see if you would apply false assumptions which of course, you did.
Once again, how does the OP in any way have to do with my personal character?
It is abundantly clear to the 74,000 people that have viewed this thread that you certainly hope no gay guys ever darken the doorway of your church.
It is abundantly clear to the 74,000 people that have viewed this thread that you certainly hope no gay guys ever darken the doorway of your church.
What a pathetic, obnoxious, horrible thing to say. Jeff has NEVER said anything of the sort that I've seen, and it's a perfect example of you and others misrepresenting what Christians believe. Worse yet, you actually responded with that horrible statement to a statement of him saying the exact opposite. You should be ashamed of yourself.
That's bigotry in the most obvious way. I'm sorry for you that you're that closed minded.
What a pathetic, obnoxious, horrible thing to say. Jeff has NEVER said anything of the sort that I've seen, and it's a perfect example of you and others misrepresenting what Christians believe. Worse yet, you actually responded with that horrible statement to a statement of him saying the exact opposite. You should be ashamed of yourself.
That's bigotry in the most obvious way. I'm sorry for you that you're that closed minded.
Fundies excel at manufacturing indignation to distract from the duckin' n' runnin'.
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