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No they were referring to people in general, that's it, OFTEN throughout the bible "world" is used in this general sense.
What pomposity, the "apparent contradiction" Yes we have missed that glaring contradiction for hundreds of years thank you for pointing it out to us. We will now go against our better judgment and believe something else. I love it when universalists, mystics, liberation theologist, pro homosexual Christians and others come to us and go look at the contradiction, and that contradiction, and that contradiction.
Here is a question, seriously why does it matter? I mean really why? We are all going to heaven. So rejoice in the good news
Since you are either unable or simply unwilling to answer the question, i will make my point despite you difficulties with it.
When John wrote that we are not to love the world, he is not referring to the people in the world, but to the material world and the things which pertain to the material world.
When John wrote that God so loved the world that he gave his only son, he is referring to mankind in general and not to the material world in this instance.
The same word used in two different ways in these two scriptures.
So there really is no contradiction at all ...
The reason i brought this up in answer to you trying to associate believers in UR with the president of the united states in an attempt to show us as being liberal and non-christian, is to show that God himself loves all men and desires all to be saved, regardless of what president Obama says or does, and your obvious tactic and argument are moot to begin with. I was merely beating you to the punch line as i presumed you would use 1Jo 2:15 to make your case. I just preempted the argument to stop it before it could show its repugnant face. And even if you hadn't used that verse to make your case, i thought iit necessary to explain it for anyone reading that might think of it as an argument against UR ...
It is obvious you hate your enemies and desire to see them burn in hell for ever. It is obvious you pretend to love them when in fact you take secret pleasure in thinking you are better than them and that they are going to get theirs in the end. It is obvious you mistake Gods judgment which is to purify for vindictive brutality and it shows the depths of your own spiritual depravity and violence. It is obvious you are sick in the head as most fundamentalist Christians are and are in sore need of the spirit of Christ to fill your heart and heal you soul.
We (those of us who speak the word of reconciliation her in this forum and in other places) are in the process of beginning the soul and spirit surgery on the apostatized church so that the healing might begin at last. Many will benefit of this intervention in the ages, some will not and will have to have a transplant by God himself before they are able to be healed.
Eze 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-08-2009 at 05:13 PM..
Proof that the early christians who spoke koine Greek as their native language didn't understand aion or its adjectives mean eternal or everlasting at all. However, evil men desiring control over the masses wanted to add words to the bible to make it teach the doctrine of eternal torture, even though they knew it wasn't written in the bible to begin with ...
Why do you reject "proof" when Verna using outside source, but then you?
Hello, Verna this is very interesting that you posted and very much true. God created everyone for Him and loves everyone, but we have a responsibility to respond to Him according to His Holyness. People in this day and age just want wake up and comprehend that the same God that created us, is going to be the same God that will send them to Hell, if they don't live by His standards.
God is a loving, mercyful, and Holy God who will not over look sin. There is evidence in the OT of the people who were destroyed because of their wickedness.
I remember fearing the Lord one day and thinking that He would kill or destroy me, but then I heard in my spirit, that God was trying to tell me that destroying was for His enemy's not His children. So, now I take pleasure in knowing that being God's child, you have His protection, and your enemy's don't stand a chance.
Now don't get me wrong, I am a child of God, but I know that I still have to live up to God's standards and live the way that He says live, because if I don't want God to deal with me according to my sins. If that was the case, death is the penalty for Sin, but Jesus paid that fous. But many want accept Jesus, so they will live without Him. r
I have noticed that people at one time called themselves a child of God, some of those are turning from God, and sad to say, some will be in Hell, separated from Him.
So, we as believers have to live a holy life and live up to the standards of God that pleases Him. In the end if you fall short, it will be to late. I don't want to hear the words from Jesus, I never knew you, depart from me. Because some people are deceived and even think that God will bring them out of that hell back into His presence. This is a man made doctrine, to help people deal with reality.
What is surprising to me now is you even have people who are even trying to attack the very words of Jesus, because His words are showing their doctrine to be false. If you have someone that says that they are Christian and believe in Jesus, but then turn around and say, but how do you know that Jesus words are true, or question if He is going to do what He said that He would do? You better run, because if they question Him, they will question you.
MY eyes have been opened to this false doctrine to what they are doing now, and what I see people on here doing. They can't find scripture to prove their false doctrine, so they play around with words, learn one or two greek words, and then attack and say that we really don't know if Jesus words are His words. Then you will even get that the bible is wrong and was translated wrong. But I find it funny that they believe the bible is wrong, but they believe the one scripture that they base their belief on is the right part. LOL, this is very entertaining to me.
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Living to God's standards where is this found in the New Covenant ?
Since when have you had the ability within yourself to actually do this ?
Please don't tell me by the Holy Spirit , because if you did believe it was by the Holy Spirit you would clearly have stated this.
You obviously believe you can attain to God's standard by your own strength , from reading this post.
This belief of yours and Verna's makes a mockery of the love,grace,mercy, the long suffering and the heart of God towards all His creation.
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Miss Shawn your post does not resemble anthing like this portion of scripture. I am so grateful to God, that He who is love , does not love like man does, He loves/loved us at our very worst, now that is good news.
Why do you reject "proof" when Verna using outside source, but then you?
I am using historical evidences to establish the true meaning of the word aion and its adjective forms. If you want biblical evidences of it look in Ephesians and Romans among other letters and you'll see that aion cannot mean eternal, but means age, not to mention the fact that aion has a plural form which by itself proves aion by itself cannot mean everlasting or eternal. And so its adjectives mean of the ages or pertaining to the ages or age during respectively ... I am not using outside sources to prove doctrine, but proper translation. In order to understand Koine Greek we MUST look outside the bible as it was not Jews or Christians who developed the language in the first place. However, to use apocryphal texts to prove biblical doctrine is altogether different ... If we are going to star using apocryphal texts then lets throw in the gnostic gospels and others and see were that gets us ... Is that what you are saying we should now start doing?
Then look an the Ethiopic apocalypse of peter ... Though i do not think it to have been divinely inspired, ill go there ... It speaks clearly and in much detail about the tortures suffered in hell by the wicked, but i also goes on to say that all those who are in hell will be redeemed for the sake of the elect. I wouldn't dare to use this obvious gnostic writing to prove UR ... But if you want to start going outside the bible then there ya go ... Or should i quote it for you? I hope that will not be necessary, but if so just say the word.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-08-2009 at 05:29 PM..
So you don't spit, cuss, drink, masturbate, smoke, eat cheetos' or drink caffeinated beverages, laugh at crass humor, watch rated R movies(or pg 13 for that matter), eat pork or any other cloven hoofed animal, work on Saturday, get angry, feel envious, or jealousy, or greed, etc. etc. etc. on purpose. Its just an accident when any of the above happens, and you really didn't mean to ... Right. Same here ... Ignorance is bliss so they say ...
Your definition of sin seems to be different from the Scriptures.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
I have noticed that those who do transgress the ten commandments of God often try to trivialize sin and define it in such a way that no one could cease from sin.
They say something like this:
Well, you laugh at crass humor and I sleep with my neighbours wife - it is all sin... By trivializing sin they can excuse their own transgression of the law.
People who do transgress the law will agree with you - the children of God will not.
I can read these scriptures and still not see what you are trying to make them say. I read the entire bible and take God at His Word. If Jesus says that He will send someone to Hell, then I believe it. There is nothing in the bible that says that God will send them there and then bring them out of that Hell. You are more then welcome to believe it, but that is your choice.
Who is twisting scripture, you are?
I am assuming that you equate hell and the lake of fire as the same thing. You do realize that these are two separate things, hades vs. lake of fire? If you read Rev very carefully you will see, by your interpretation, that death and hell are thrown into hell and destroyed. Please explain to me how this is possible and yet there will still be people in hell being tormented for eternity?
Can you give an example of sin commited in ignorance ?.
Certainly - you are breaking the Sabbath because you thinkyou do not have to keep it. However , that will not help you since you also break the commandments you do understand.
Your definition of sin seems to be different from the Scriptures.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
I have noticed that those who do transgress the ten commandments of God often try to trivialize sin and define it in such a way that no one could cease from sin.
They say something like this:
Well, you laugh at crass humor and I sleep with my neighbours wife - it is all sin... By trivializing sin they can excuse their own transgression of the law.
People who do transgress the law will agree with you - the children of God will not.
HK
If you think it you have done it ... You will disagree with that as well i'm sure ...
Mat 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Is that trivializing the law? But you who seek to be saved by the law are fallen from grace already ..
Gal 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Mar 7:13
Making the word (logos - Christ himself) of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-08-2009 at 05:43 PM..
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where is this found in the New Covenant ?
