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Couple of people mentioned Iowa as a "Upper Midwest State". There seems to be many different opinions on the term "Upper Midwest", even by the government. I have also seen Iowa listed as a "Great Lake State".
But simply from a geographic standpoint, I honestly do not consider Iowa to be Upper Midwest and especially not a Great Lake State.
The geography is far too different, Iowa lacks the vast North Woods and lakes of the true Upper Midwest --- Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Far more land area is devoted to farming than woodland in Iowa. And Iowa is more into corn (like Illinois and Indiana) and hogs, while the 3 Upper Midwest states are more into dairy farming and some corn.
Nor does Iowa have cities like the ones found along the Great Lakes. Where is the Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee of Iowa? Of course there are some similarities, particually Iowa and S. Minnesota. But the differences outweigh the similarities IMHO.
IMO Upper Midwest = Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin and the Great Lake areas of Indiana, Illinois and Ohio.
Should we just abandon the Upper Midwest regional category? Nobody can seem to agree on what it is - it implies liberal-ness, or northern-ness, or lake-ness or something, but then you have people put Missouri in the upper category, while it's the southern-most state and isn't particulary liberal or lakeish.
Couple of people mentioned Iowa as a "Upper Midwest State". There seems to be many different opinions on the term "Upper Midwest", even by the government. I have also seen Iowa listed as a "Great Lake State".
But simply from a geographic standpoint, I honestly do not consider Iowa to be Upper Midwest and especially not a Great Lake State.
The geography is far too different, Iowa lacks the vast North Woods and lakes of the true Upper Midwest --- Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Far more land area is devoted to farming than woodland in Iowa. And Iowa is more into corn (like Illinois and Indiana) and hogs, while the 3 Upper Midwest states are more into dairy farming and some corn.
Nor does Iowa have cities like the ones found along the Great Lakes. Where is the Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee of Iowa? Of course there are some similarities, particually Iowa and S. Minnesota. But the differences outweigh the similarities IMHO.
IMO Upper Midwest = Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin and the Great Lake areas of Indiana, Illinois and Ohio.
I was thinking of Upper Midwest as the Northern parts of Minnesota, Wisconsin, and both the UP of Michigan and the uppermost part of the LP. The other areas I consider a seperate region of Central Midwest that is different due to density, land use, ethnicity.
maybe he meant more devout/open, not more evangelical
Thy are just as devout, but very traditional as far as style of worship, which automatically throws the evangelical theory out the window.
As I said, in my corner of E Missouri, the evangelical movement has barely a toehold there.
I've noticed a great difference between Midwestern Catholics and Southern Catholics, also.
There's great diversity among Catholics period. We are talking about a worldwide denomination that in many ways is a microcosm of our planet. Talk about a "Rainbow Religion".lol
Should we just abandon the Upper Midwest regional category? Nobody can seem to agree on what it is - it implies liberal-ness, or northern-ness, or lake-ness or something, but then you have people put Missouri in the upper category, while it's the southern-most state and isn't particulary liberal or lakeish.
We on this forum don't really have the ability to determine what's Upper Midwest, Lower Midwest, or whatever else it is that some of us might come up with. There is the Midwest, and that's really all there needs to be. The Great Lakes States, are sometimes differentiated as a part of the Midwest, but otherwise, the Midwest is the Midwest.
As far as Catholics in East Missouri, that would be a resounding no.
Well, the Kansas City metro area has a number of Catholic mega churches in the suburbs. Those from Olathe tend to be ultra conservative and more evangelical with very large families.
No part of Indiana, Illinois or Ohio are Upper Midwest. All of Minnesota is Upper Midwest, and so are parts of Wisconsin, Michigan and the Dakotas. Basically draw a line from the southern border of Minnesota west to the Missouri River, and east to Lake Huron. That's the Upper Midwest.
No part of Indiana, Illinois or Ohio are Upper Midwest. All of Minnesota is Upper Midwest, and so are parts of Wisconsin, Michigan and the Dakotas. Basically draw a line from the southern border of Minnesota west to the Missouri River, and east to Lake Huron. That's the Upper Midwest.
Please stop. You've repeated this misstatement countless times in this thread. MN is not the center of the universe. The Upper Midwest does not revolve around MN.
The Dakotas are Great Plains states and have no similarities whatsoever with WI and MI, who comprise 2/3 of the Upper Midwest's core states. As I've said before, and it's not because I live here, WI is the center of the Upper Midwest. We don't border a foreign country and our culture is more representative of neighboring states than that of MN. For instance, WI has large populations of Catholics, ethnic whites, Blacks, and Latinos like MI and IL, as well as lots of Lutherans and Scandinavians like MN and IA
Places like Gary, IN or Waukegan, IL could just as easily be Racine, WI or Pontiac, MI, just as Chicago and Rockford share more similarities with Milwaukee and Janesville than they do with Indianapolis or Evansville. The northern portions of IL and IN are very similar to the southern portions of WI and MI.
Last edited by EastSideMKE; 07-19-2010 at 01:17 AM..
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