My explanation of the Midwest by map (camping, live in)
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Good map but I would not consider any of Ohio, Indiana or Illinois to be upper midwestern. Cleveland an upper midwest town??? cant see it. Really in my opinion the upper midwest boundry runs through Detroit and Chicago. Anything south of those citys is more "midlands" as you called it. I also think the states of the great planes could be another subregion of the midwest.
Good map but I would not consider any of Ohio, Indiana or Illinois to be upper midwestern. Cleveland an upper midwest town??? cant see it. Really in my opinion the upper midwest boundry runs through Detroit and Chicago. Anything south of those citys is more "midlands" as you called it. I also think the states of the great planes could be another subregion of the midwest.
Being from Michigan, I used to think I lived in the Upper Midwest (like most Michiganders do). However, I now live in the true Upper Midwest, Minnesota, and I can definitely see that the Upper Midwest/Lower Midwest line is well above Detroit and Chicago. Most of Michigan's population is in the Lower Midwest.
In Michigan, the line basically follows US-10 across the state. That's approximately where the landscape changes from the deciduous forest, farms and heavy population of the Lower Midwest to Upper Midwestern mixed forest, fewer farms and sparse population. Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Saginaw, Detroit, Lansing, et al are not Upper Midwestern cities. Cities like Alpena, Manistee, Traverse City and Grayling (and of course the entire UP) are Upper Midwestern. I know this from experience. Most of Michigan's population is in the Lower Midwest.
Being from Michigan, I used to think I lived in the Upper Midwest (like most Michiganders do). However, I now live in the true Upper Midwest, Minnesota, and I can definitely see that the Upper Midwest/Lower Midwest line is well above Detroit and Chicago. Most of Michigan's population is in the Lower Midwest.
In Michigan, the line basically follows US-10 across the state. That's approximately where the landscape changes from the deciduous forest, farms and heavy population of the Lower Midwest to Upper Midwestern mixed forest, fewer farms and sparse population. Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Saginaw, Detroit, Lansing, et al are not Upper Midwestern cities. Cities like Alpena, Manistee, Traverse City and Grayling (and of course the entire UP) are Upper Midwestern. I know this from experience. Most of Michigan's population is in the Lower Midwest.
I disagree with you about that. If I remember correctly from your former posts you are from down around three rivers. That area is more lower midwest, your right. You are also right that agriculture drops off above US 10. However the area north of say I96 in Michigan gets quite sparsely populated. Most of the farm towns in central lower Michigan are definately upper midwest. I also think Grand Rapids and Saginaw are upper midwest towns, no differnt than Green bay or Milwalkee. If you concede at least that all of Wisconsin is upper midwest, then you must concede that similar farm communitys in Michigan at the same latitude are also upper midwest. The area I live in is about 35 miles south of US 10, and I certainly dont think I am lower midwest. This is not Ohio or Indiana for goodness sakes. Speech patterns here are upper midwest, the German ethnicity of central Michigan is more in line with upper midwest, and of course we are far enough north as well. I used to live in Sault ste Marie, and you would not argue that one being upper midwest. I dont notice that much difference in the people here compared to there (other than the soo is a bigger drinking town). Now down toward Detroit, Ann Arbor, Jackson people do talk different and act different. You can smell Ohio there.
I still stand by my opinion. Of course there isn't a "line in the sand" but the strong Upper Midwest influences begin north of Clare -- north of US-10. I really don't see much difference in, say, St. Louis and Three Rivers. Both are Lower Michigan farm towns, and much more like Ohio and Indiana than Minnesota. The accent is the same until you get north of US-10 -- people from St. Johns still say "baaahg" (rhymes with bad) and draw out their "ah" sounds (paaaaahp) just like those from Detroit, Kalamazoo or Cleveland. North of US 10 is the typical Upper Midwest (Minnesota, Dakota, Wisconsin) accent. Believe me, I had this pointed out to me when I moved to Minnesota. I've (thankfully) lost most of the Michigan accent but it still comes out when I'm tired or stressed, or when I go back to MI.
Also, I don't consider all of Wisconsin to be Upper Midwest. Areas like Beloit, Janesville, Milwaukee are definitely Lower Midwestern. Draw a line from the bottom of Minnesota across Wisconsin -- that's a good dividing line between Upper and Lower.
I still stand by my opinion. Of course there isn't a "line in the sand" but the strong Upper Midwest influences begin north of Clare -- north of US-10. I really don't see much difference in, say, St. Louis and Three Rivers. Both are Lower Michigan farm towns, and much more like Ohio and Indiana than Minnesota. The accent is the same until you get north of US-10 -- people from St. Johns still say "baaahg" (rhymes with bad) and draw out their "ah" sounds (paaaaahp) just like those from Detroit, Kalamazoo or Cleveland. North of US 10 is the typical Upper Midwest (Minnesota, Dakota, Wisconsin) accent. Believe me, I had this pointed out to me when I moved to Minnesota. I've (thankfully) lost most of the Michigan accent but it still comes out when I'm tired or stressed, or when I go back to MI.
Also, I don't consider all of Wisconsin to be Upper Midwest. Areas like Beloit, Janesville, Milwaukee are definitely Lower Midwestern. Draw a line from the bottom of Minnesota across Wisconsin -- that's a good dividing line between Upper and Lower.
You live in Minnesota and that is the very heart of the upper midwest. It is more upper midwestern than Mi or Wi and I will concede that. However if you say the only parts of wi that are upper midwest are similar latitudes as the bottom of Mn, then extend that line into Mi as well and you are south of US 10. Just barley north of Flint and Grand Rapids to be exact. About 43 degrees north to be very exact. Having been all over Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota before Ive never noticed that much of an accent difference between them. All three states have pockets of much stronger accents, but they are all similar. Here in Michigan its the yooper accent centered around Marquette and houghton. The strong accents in Mn and Wi seem to be in the northern areas as well. Only southeast Michigan really has that differnt ohio type accent you talk about. I know this is true because my speech helped me blow a job interview down there once. The interviewer told me I had a very "northern" sounding accent. I suppose that is the difference you are talking about. I guess that is one of the reasons I am disputing your dividing line. I really do believe it is more along I 96, or at the least I 69. Go visit Frankenmuth Michigan and tell me that place feels lower midwest.
The map and distinctions look arbitrary to me. I would argue that central Ohio has much more in common with northern Ohio than it does with western Kansas. You are addressing the north to south differences, but not the east to west.
Eh I dunno, not being from the midwest and living there... there is a major difference to me in culture once you go south of milwaukee/chicago and detroit to the east. Chicago/Detroit/Milwaukee/Minneapolis have far more in common with eachother than Omaha/Des Moines/Kansas City/etc.
I've driven a good deal through the rest of Illinois/Nebraska/Iowa/Indiana and they are not the same to me as say Chicago/Detroit, I agree though the border of a different feel is touching those bottom metros and it is different from there on up.
Okay, Colorado is not part of the midwest at all. Yes, Colorado has the western edge of the great plains/high plains in the eastern part of the state, but so does texas and new mexico. Colorado is part of the western states, mtn. west states, and southwestern states.
also, oklahoma is considered a southern state by almost everyone and sometimes even a southwest state in some cases. colorado is definitely not part of the southwest though.
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No!!!
