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Old 06-21-2010, 09:55 AM
 
349 posts, read 394,176 times
Reputation: 161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
That's how I read title 8 also. I've heard many say that illegal aliens have ONLY violated civil laws. Not being a lawyer, I'm really not sure about this. It would seem (IMO) that illegal aliens are in violation (present tense, as opposed to a one time past tense event) of Federal Law (or Regulations) that carry criminal and/or civil penalties that maybe imposed.

Lets read the US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 8, Chapter 12, Sub-chapter 2, part 8, section 1325 to see exactly what it says:

§ 1325. Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

(c) Marriage fraud Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.

(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

----------------------------------------------------

Well, here is what I've learned from reading it:

1. Those that improperly enter the country are defined as aliens, not immigrants. So the term "immigrant" should not be used to define someone that has crossed the border illegally. They are ALIENS. The word ALIEN is offensive to many, right? But words have meanings and I see no reason to call an alien an immigrant. Why do some refer to aliens as "undocumented immigrants"? Isn't that lying? Would the term "undocumented alien" or "Improper Entry Alien" be more appropriate? Does "improper" mean illegal? Is this where the term "Illegal Alien" comes from? It would seem that the term "Illegal Alien" best defines what the Regulations are trying to describe and prohibit.

2. Aliens may be fined or imprisoned, or both, for being in violation of the Federal Regulations. That seems pretty straight forward to me...

3. The Regulations are referred to as being Federal, not Civil. At least that's where these regulations are found, under Federal Regulations. I don't see where the Federal Regulations are defined as being Civil Laws. Are Federal Regulations ever called Civil laws within the Regulations? If so, where can I find it? If not, why do some say that illegal aliens are ONLY in violation of civil law?

4. Imposed penalties may be civil or criminal. Some civil penalties are said to be "in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed." This leads me to believe that civil penalties, as well as criminal penalties, may be imposed for violating the Federal Regulations. However, the Regulations are still Federal, not civil or criminal laws, right? And these Federal Regulations can carry BOTH civil and criminal penalties.

Does this make any sense?
Because of the protections afforded those in criminal proceedings, deportation and immigration court is handled in a civil setting to save time and money.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Don't be a cry baby!
1,310 posts, read 1,145,391 times
Reputation: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
Illegal immigrant is not a valid term according to US law. The government recognizes only aliens and immigrants. A non-immigrant who is in the US without permission is an illegal alien. Please use the correct term.
Is this PC? If not I will use it in most post then! Ya know, those illegal aliens!
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,207,047 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
Illegal immigrant is not a valid term according to US law. The government recognizes only aliens and immigrants. A non-immigrant who is in the US without permission is an illegal alien. Please use the correct term.
I'd best not respond to this..
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:21 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22159
Besides the breaking of immigration laws, and the felony document fraud that goes hand-in-hand with being here illegally AND driving without licenses, without liability insurance, MANY illegals are here committing plenty of other crimes.

Like this bunch:

Springs nightclub front for major drug ring | truck, major, nightclub - Feds - Colorado Springs Gazette, CO


The drug-running ended April 15, after the latest in a series of raids in which 36 people were arrested on suspicion of drug distribution, many of them Mexican nationals illegally living in Colorado Springs.

Others were arrested in Calhan, Denver, Pueblo and cities in California and Nevada, authorities said.



Once you decide that you are above the law, that you're special and have a special right to disregard any law that doesn't suit you, it follows that you will be more inclined to break any law you feel you're too good to follow.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:10 PM
 
3 posts, read 3,012 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
- section 1325

But then people who entered the U.S. legally and then overstayed ( about 45% of the illegal aliens as of 2006 according to NPR) (Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas : NPR) would not be a criminal.

-Kellem

you really can't use NPR as an un-biased source...that 12 million illegals is also way low, and the vast majority are crossing the border illegally, not legitimate visa over-stayers
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:28 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,498,817 times
Reputation: 2661
The answer is that it can be criminal but need not be...

*******************************

In examining the INA, it is crucial to distinguish between its civil and criminal provisions. For example, the INA generally makes it a criminal offense for an alien to enter the United States without authorization,3 with heightened penalties available in cases where an alien unlawfully reenters after having previously been ordered removed from the country.4 Moreover, persons who transport unauthorized aliens into or within the United States, or harbor such aliens within the country, are generally subject to criminal penalty.5

On the other hand, some violations of the INA are subject to civil penalties.6 For example, an entity that knowingly hires an alien who is not authorized to work in the United States may be subject to a civil monetary penalty.7

Moreover, deportation and associated administrative processes related to the removal of aliens are civil in nature.8 For example, an alien’sunauthorized immigration status makes him removable, but absent additional factors (e.g., having reentered the United States after being formally removed), unlawful presence does not constitute a criminal offense.9 In some cases, conduct may potentially be subject to both civil and criminal sanction under the INA. For instance, an alien who unlawfully enters the United States may be subject to criminal penalty as well as deportation. However, the fact that an alien may be subject to both criminal sanction and removal for an immigration violation does not mean that each tool shall be employed.10

************************************************** **

Authority of State and Local Police to Enforce Federal Immigration Law
Congressional Research Services

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R41423.pdf
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:37 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,087,243 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
That's how I read title 8 also. I've heard many say that illegal aliens have ONLY violated civil laws. Not being a lawyer, I'm really not sure about this. It would seem (IMO) that illegal aliens are in violation (present tense, as opposed to a one time past tense event) of Federal Law (or Regulations) that carry criminal and/or civil penalties that maybe imposed.

Lets read the US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 8, Chapter 12, Sub-chapter 2, part 8, section 1325 to see exactly what it says:

§ 1325. Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

(c) Marriage fraud Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.

(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

----------------------------------------------------

Well, here is what I've learned from reading it:

1. Those that improperly enter the country are defined as aliens, not immigrants. So the term "immigrant" should not be used to define someone that has crossed the border illegally. They are ALIENS. The word ALIEN is offensive to many, right? But words have meanings and I see no reason to call an alien an immigrant. Why do some refer to aliens as "undocumented immigrants"? Isn't that lying? Would the term "undocumented alien" or "Improper Entry Alien" be more appropriate? Does "improper" mean illegal? Is this where the term "Illegal Alien" comes from? It would seem that the term "Illegal Alien" best defines what the Regulations are trying to describe and prohibit.

2. Aliens may be fined or imprisoned, or both, for being in violation of the Federal Regulations. That seems pretty straight forward to me...

3. The Regulations are referred to as being Federal, not Civil. At least that's where these regulations are found, under Federal Regulations. I don't see where the Federal Regulations are defined as being Civil Laws. Are Federal Regulations ever called Civil laws within the Regulations? If so, where can I find it? If not, why do some say that illegal aliens are ONLY in violation of civil law?

4. Imposed penalties may be civil or criminal. Some civil penalties are said to be "in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed." This leads me to believe that civil penalties, as well as criminal penalties, may be imposed for violating the Federal Regulations. However, the Regulations are still Federal, not civil or criminal laws, right? And these Federal Regulations can carry BOTH civil and criminal penalties.

Does this make any sense?
The classificationof US immigration law is Adimistrative.

Quote:
Administrative law is the body of law that governs the activities of administrative agencies of government. Government agency action can include rulemaking, adjudication, or the enforcement of a specific regulatory agenda. Administrative law is considered a branch of public law. As a body of law, administrative law deals with the decision-making of administrative units of government (for example, tribunals, boards or commissions) that are part of a national regulatory scheme in such areas as police law, international trade, manufacturing, the environment, taxation, broadcasting,immigration and transport.
Although Adminstrative law is federal most do not carry the punitive weight of other "Federal" offenses.

Most people incorrectly place extreme weight on the breaking of US immigration law, but in fact the federal government has the right given by the Constituion and the Congress to over-see immigration and its penalties. breaking US immigration rules have misdermeanors as first offense penalties.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:32 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,802 posts, read 30,052,880 times
Reputation: 17694
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
The classificationof US immigration law is Adimistrative.



Although Adminstrative law is federal most do not carry the punitive weight of other "Federal" offenses.

Most people incorrectly place extreme weight on the breaking of US immigration law, but in fact the federal government has the right given by the Constituion and the Congress to over-see immigration and its penalties. breaking US immigration rules have misdermeanors as first offense penalties.
Yet, still deportable.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:37 AM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,498,817 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Yet, still deportable.
Absoluterly...an administrative or civil action.

The feds often have an option of a criminal action against an alien but seldom take it. Costs too much, takes to long and takes up space in the system...so it would lower the number deported.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
2,868 posts, read 4,041,941 times
Reputation: 5229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Is illegal immigration a crime? Are Illegal immigrants criminals?
Kellam, I think we're just splitting hairs here. We can spin it first offense is civil, second offense criminal and so on, yadda, yadda, yadda. What about just plain common sense and forget about the P.C.

Wouldn't you agree that generally when someone does something illegal that it's a criminal act? There's way too much effort used in sugar coating and justifying illegal immigration. It leads me to believe that those in the pro-illegal camp actually do know that illegal immigration is wrong, otherwise, why so much time and effort on things like this.

Yes, IMO, illegal immigrants are criminals.
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