Shootings (York, Homestead: shop, gangs, move)

[ExPit]

Subdivisions... You're mother is a great woman/person, and as I'm sure you know, you were/are blessed. And yes, some of us, some of them, have the wherewithal to navigate whatever maze is before us. But only the smartest, the toughest, the proudest, the ones left with a wealth of self-respect in their reserves do it. It's all about hope. Hope is the most precious of all commodities, all of us have our breaking point. Could be that the singular human challenge is to not let ourselves become so depleted that we lose our hope, our will to fight.

[subdivisions]

Originally Posted by ExPit

Subdivisions... You're mother is a great woman/person, and as I'm sure you know, you were/are blessed. And yes, some of us, some of them, have the wherewithal to navigate whatever maze is before us. But only the smartest, the toughest, the proudest, the ones left with a wealth of self-respect in their reserves do it. It's all about hope. Hope is the most precious of all commodities, all of us have our breaking point. Could be that the singular human challenge is to not let ourselves become so depleted that we lose our hope, our will to fight.

I agree. Not everybody will do stuff like that. And hope is what pushes us to move beyond our circumstances in life.

Also, I wanted to clarify that I didn't mean to suggest that ambition is all that it ever takes to rise above racism (or in my mother's case, sexism, poverty, and abuse). There is only so much a single person can ever do by themselves if the world around them is determined to keep them down. In my mother's case, social norms about the role of women in society changed during her lifetime, which supported her efforts towards personal achievement. If we are going to demand that other people work to help themselves, we must also work at a larger level to remove obstacles - make sure everyone has access to boots and straps, as it were.

[subdivisions]

Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad

You make sense here. I can't respond to all of your points (though I'd like to), but I can be as hard on black folks as I am on anyone else...and I haven't been one of those who says "whitey bad, brothas good". It's a lot more complex than that.

It is definitely a lot more complex than that. (And I know it was wordy - I didn't expect anyone to respond to everything...)

[ExPit]

Originally Posted by subdivisions

I agree. Not everybody will do stuff like that. And hope is what pushes us to move beyond our circumstances in life.

Also, I wanted to clarify that I didn't mean to suggest that ambition is all that it ever takes to rise above racism (or in my mother's case, sexism, poverty, and abuse). There is only so much a single person can ever do by themselves if the world around them is determined to keep them down. In my mother's case, social norms about the role of women in society changed during her lifetime, which supported her efforts towards personal achievement. If we are going to demand that other people work to help themselves, we must also work at a larger level to remove obstacles - make sure everyone has access to boots and straps, as it were.

Sounds like a great lady. I had some good examples in my life to, and like your mother some bad ones to; ha, sometimes they were even the same person. I've done ok in my life, and thankfully I have the reserve to make sure that my kids are smarter and more focused than I was, and so far it's working out on all counts. But I don't kid myself that it couldn't have gone the other way. That just a few more blows or setbacks or disadvantages in my youth and it couldn't have tipped the scale too far the wrong way.

[creepsinc]

What I see here is another thread about to be shut down. At least throw in something about the Waterfront shootings to create the illusion of being on topic.

In response to the person who originally brought up racism by calling everybody here racist, I'll admit there's a dominant suburban "white-flight" mentality which pervades these forums, but I wouldn't call it racist. As for slavery, it's still going on. Once again, look to Africa. As for slavery in this country, it's far in the past. Learn from the past, don't repeat the past, but PLEASE let go of the past. I don't feel like looking it up, but the last former slave died some time ago. I have serfs (aka slaves) in my ancestry and a case could be made for the fact that it has something to do with there never being any money in my family. As for Jim Crow, you've got a point. There are still people who lived through it and I couldn't imagine what it was like. If I have privilege, it was being born after that time period.

Some of the most virulent anti-Mexican racism I've encountered has come from black co-workers, and people of all colors seem to hate the Arabs. Lesson? Everybody needs to get over themselves, quit acting like victims of society (most of us are), live their lives as individuals and FORGET about "their people", which is a concept, like equality, which absolutely does not exist.

Ethnic pride is one of the silliest kinds of pride. Take pride in things you've accomplished yourself.

P.S. As a dreaded straight white male, I'm still looking for my f*cking keys to the world. They must be around here somewhere.


I go to the Waterfront sometimes...I'm not afraid of being shot.

[By~Tor]

I shop Waterfront all the time... and while I fear very few things in life, I don't think I'd wanna' be there alone after dark. . . .but then again, my own 'hood of Mount Oliver has its own issues, what with people getting stabbed in the head and all..... I'm about ready to start vigilante justice measures, any day now.....

[subdivisions]

Originally Posted by creepsinc

What I see here is another thread about to be shut down. At least throw in something about the Waterfront shootings to create the illusion of being on topic.

It would be sad if this thread got deleted. This is a really interesting discussion, and IMO, pertinent to many threads we've had on City-Data Forum about neighborhoods and race, crime, etc.

[mr.davon24]

WOW where did this thread turn to? Although everyone in intitled to their opinions I thinks racism doesn't belong in this thread. About the Waterfront shootings they've beefed up the secruity some now. If something happens then we call then decide if its a place for hoodlums. I'll keep everyone post I live close.

[creepsinc]

Originally Posted by subdivisions

It would be sad if this thread got deleted. This is a really interesting discussion, and IMO, pertinent to many threads we've had on City-Data Forum about neighborhoods and race, crime, etc.

It was sad when the last one got shut down.

Has anybody been to Dave and Buster's at the Waterfront? There is no bigger waste of money. I went to one in Atlanta (awful town) once.

Sorry, didn't mean to be flippant.

Edit: yes I did, but hopefully everyone understands my desire to inject flippancy in order to keep things from getting too serious.

[ExPit]

Yeah, there are alotta Mexicans that hate blacks and vice versa. Just as alot of Italians used to hate Puerto Ricans in New York. (As a kid I witnessed a pretty good shirts on skins, two x four board fight between the two at my uncle's apartment in Flushing, Queens). And of course the Irish weren't too crazy about the Italians when they first came over, as they were the next group down on the totem pole, lived in adjacent city neighborhoods, went to the same Catholic churches and often schools. Hate is always about fear, fear of the unknown or more likely fear of loss. Always it seems, and now more than ever, the powers at the top take whatever they can get away with and leave the rest of us to battle it out for the crumbs.

I used to know someone who said, "Everyone wants to feel better than other people and if they can't do it on their own, then they try to do it as a group."

Was it Lenny Bruce, probably not, who said, I'll paraphrase, that the only answer to America's race/prejudice problem is for everyone to just start ****ing everyone else, (inter-racially that is), till we all look alike and we can't tell one from another anymore?

And yeah, can't say that Homestead is a convenient place for me to do my shopping, but if it were, I too would go there unarmed and without a bullet proof vest.