Utah Valley - Can we be allowed to share our experiences? (Sandy: to live, vs)

[Chickrae]

I can't spell either......sorry. Anyways they have last minute deals every Wednesday and Thursday that come out and you travel Saturday to Monday or Tuesday. It used to be about 128.00 round trip. I would go there every other month or so to visit family when I lived in the Salt Lake area.

[osugirl2]

She doesn't live in CO yet, but that might be the way to do it and save some $$ to drive to Denver and then fly to OKC.

[Chickrae]

For sure. Flights from OKC are alot cheaper then from Tulsa...I have found that out. Tulsa is not a hub to anything so everything connects somewhere else. Denver, or DFW etc. She will love Colorado...it is so pretty.

[Chickrae]

Osu girl - come on over to the Utah Chatting thread....you can talk about anything there.
I guess I am getting off topic here.

[osugirl2]

Originally Posted by Chickrae

Osu girl - come on over to the Utah Chatting thread....you can talk about anything there.
I guess I am getting off topic here.

I'll try and come over this evening. My computer at work blocks it for some reason

[Chickrae]

Originally Posted by osugirl2

I'll try and come over this evening. My computer at work blocks it for some reason

Yep that happens!

[cinnabon]

wow, what a thread! It amazes me when people start a thread like this, acting as if they are doing the world a favor by exposing the horrors that they experienced, and then they are completely closed off to any kind of give and take discusion, simply accusing others of being trolls if they don't see things the same way. <- this is not the attitude that will get you anywhere in life.

I feel sorry for you cycle - it's tough going through life being unable to see yourself in the mirror, simply externalizing everything. You just don't get it.

By the way, I am not LDS, not religious, not working for the tourism dept. of Utah, nor do I have any stake in defending it. It's not perfect, and not one person in this thread ever said it was. Pick a new neighborhood and move on.

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by Cycle

To all of you,

In my first paragraph of this thread I stated "One thing that always happened was that the people who were being negative were bombarded by people calling them negative and saying that there is nothing wrong with Utah, that it has to be them with the problems…" Thank each and every one of you (you know who you are and everyone reading this can tell who you are) for making that point for me.

but again, you are in error. no one said that there was nothing wrong with utah. in fact, many here said just the opposite. apparently, in your zeal to prove how rude and arrogant mormons are, you seem to have lost some ability to comprehend what has been written.

luckily for you, all of those posts are still within the preceding pages. that means that you can still go back and reread what we've actually said to you, instead of what you have been wrongly assuming that we were saying.

your inability to even get this little detail right--even after repeated corrections from all of us--seems to color the rest of your agenda as pretty shallow and spiteful.

If those of us who are experiencing these types of behaviors are not allowed to get our stories out then there will never be any change...and maybe that is what all of you want, I don't know.

i'm pretty sure that your mind is made up on what it is 'that we want', and that nothing we could say or do would convince you otherwise.

no one has made any attempt to disallow you from telling your story. you told it. hasn't been cut. hasn't been edited. is it still there? have people read it?

what we have done is challenge your idea that you should be able to use logical fallacies to accuse with impunity, and then try to claim some form of debate-related 'timeout', where you are safe from all criticisms to your argument.

in science, we call this a peer review. you present your evidence, and your peers dissect it piece by piece. if it holds, it is good. if it doesn't, it is no good.

in your case, your refusal to acknowledge that sweeping generalizations do not make an intelligent argument (among other logcial fallacies), broke your argument.

no one even disagreed with you as far as the idea that bad things happen to good people in utah. no one did. no one 'blasted' you as you so melodramatically put it. we simply disagreed with your over all analysis.

What I do know is that it is obvious you are 'righteous' Christians in your espoused values of understanding, compassion and kindness but that your enacted values are condemnation, ridicule and pettiness, basically you all talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Take a look at your own words and reactions, what do you see?

please. i find it amusing that the same person that comes in here condemning an antire state is trying to stand in as my moral jury.

once you can make a point without having to resort to blatantly immature and broken argumentative strategies, then i will take your concern for my spiritual wellbeing seriously. until then, you are merely ignoring the beam in your own eye for the mote in mine.

As for myself, I will apologize for one thing, I wanted to make sure that this thread stayed alive and at the top for as long as possible so that many people would have a chance to read it and it wouldn't get lost in the jumble. I have posted some intentionally direct posts (posts that I didn't dummy down or make nicer) just because I knew you wouldn't be able to resist the opprotunity to blast me. As long as you all keep posting, this thread will stay alive and it will be read, people will get a chance to see what it CAN be like living in Utah Valley.

well, for starters, this thread still has not shown outsiders what living in utah is like. it hasn't actually communicated either the bad or the good. it has merely shown the lurkers that people argue, which is something that i am sure they already knew.

again though, your apparent attempts at baiting hostility, as you seem to have had as your goal, have been fruitless. no one has attacked you. we've simply disagreed.

you kept telling kaytidid to calm down and not take things personally, when she was calm, and wasn't taking anything personally (again, in case you missed it, she's not even mormon). you would do well to keep your own advice, especially as you continue to accuse us of attacking you, when no such thing has happened.

I think you made my point for me and there is nothing else I can add. Good luck to all of you, I sincerely hope that some day you will learn to be as Christian in your posts to others as you "tell" others they should be in their lives, open your hearts and minds please...you are displaying the typical behavior of an e-bully-troll and yes I have gone through and read your posts to other people as I am sure others have done. Maybe you should all be just a little ashamed and embarassed by your representation of your beliefs through your words.

sounds strangely like you are lumping everyone into the utah county mormon group again. so far, i've counted two mormons among those that disagree with you. the rest: nonmormons.

logical fallacies seem to be par for the course in your debates. add to it the self-righteousness, the condescending attitude, the judgmental accusations, and i am starting to wonder if maybe your neighbors were merely afraid of you.

Thanks for all of the understanding I have received (yes that was sarcastic). Please don't respond to this as there will be no further postings from me, just let it go...

Cycle

i will respond to what i feel like, and as this is a *discussion forum*, i feel pretty confident that i'm in good company. it seems that you have a desire for the last word; maybe that is all that this thread was. you didn't get the last word with your neighbors, and you demanded it from us from the start, and are so doing again.

as i said early on in this discussion, if you would have begun your statements with an "i need to vent, and this is not the time to show me logic and reason" kind of disclaimer, then you would have gotten a few eye-rolls, a little bit of sympathy, some direction.

but that is not what you did. you came in and told the world that you had the truth about mormons, and that for the good of humanity, you needed to get it out there to people--and oh, by the way, they're not allowed to respond or disagree.

sound reasonable? sound logical?

nope. sounds fallacious. and in case you're thinking that the word fallacious refers to something done in the privacy of one's home, you're wrong (though now i wonder if there might be an etymological root in common there...). it means 'fraudulent', 'false', an 'unsound argument'.

understand now why people didn't want to just let it slide as gospel truth from the mouth of st. cycle?

as an aside, i find it humorous and ironic that on this thread, where no one was supposed to be able to disagree about the apparent evil, inhospitable nature of the state, we have a discussion in the works where an outsider is getting excited about coming to utah, even amid the apparent verbal fusillade going on (you know, where one forumite feels 'attacked' simply because no one agrees with his/her extreme perspective).

irony aside, happy thursday, everybody!

oh, and cycle, you're still invited to my moving-in party in the spring, whether you want to come or not.

so are any of the other utah-forumites (i know i've already mentioned it to some of you, but i forget who...). take that for cruel and inhospitable.

time is to be announced, by the way. have to wait till we don't need snowshoes and parkas. i might also have to get the grill working...

aaron out.

[carlymac]

Cycle-

Message forums can be brutal. You're probably better off talking to people in person where you can hear tone of voice and make eye contact. Sorry you've had a rough start in Utah. Give it some more time and chances before you totally write us all off.

[Cycle]

carlymac,

Exactly the type of responses and behavior I expected when I finally decided to make this post. Please don't worry about me, I have stated over and over it is my neighborhood, I hold nothing against Utah or Mormons in general. I also encourage the brutality because I think that people should read about what people are like in Utah (as well as ex-Utahn's (sp) who haven't lived here for years), the good, the bad and the ugly, all these negative posts that have been read so many times are really leaving a good impression with people wanting to learn something about Utah. Thanks for the encouragement though, that was really very nice and unexpected.
Cycle