Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why can't it stop?
Why can't Ukrainian troops pull away from Donbass and be done with it? ( If Ukraine can continue its path without Donbass as you say.) ?
They have in fact proposed this with UN peacekeepers holding the ground. But then Ukraine will turn its back on this slice of occupied ground and move on without them, thus not achieving Putin's goals and reason for supporting the separatists. Donestk is obviously not vital to Ukraine or the country would have collapsed by now.
Because Russian-backed militants would proceed to take more territory.
Says who?
These militants (backed by Russia) could have taken much more territories long time ago, if they wanted to.
( Not to mention that Russia could have brought troops in and take over South-East at the same time when it took Crimea.)
They have in fact proposed this with UN peacekeepers holding the ground.
Who proposed? What ground? Does population of Donbass wants any "UN peacekeepers" there?
Quote:
But then Ukraine will turn its back on this slice of occupied ground and move on without them, thus not achieving Putin's goals and reason for supporting the separatists. Donestk is obviously not vital to Ukraine or the country would have collapsed by now.
What's Putin's goal in all this and do you know it for sure?
Says who?
These militants (backed by Russia) could have taken much more territories long time ago, if they wanted to.
( Not to mention that Russia could have brought troops in and take over South-East at the same time when it took Crimea.)
*sigh, said Zaharchenko, the DNR commander. You need to find the truth a better way than this...
Just saying they could have taken more territory when they tried and clearly failed doesn't really mean they don't have more ground for lack of trying.
They have in fact proposed this with UN peacekeepers holding the ground. But then Ukraine will turn its back on this slice of occupied ground and move on without them, thus not achieving Putin's goals and reason for supporting the separatists. Donestk is obviously not vital to Ukraine or the country would have collapsed by now.
UN peacekeepers would hold the current line, the DNR/LNR and Russia have already made it crystal clear there would not be any occupation by the UN of Novorussia. Take it or leave it.
Novorussians still remember the lives lost, being called terrorists and criminals. The hatred runs very deep and with good reason. Are the mad dogs in the militias going to be brought to justice? There was some real murderous bastards with guns among them. Most of the people didn't care who was shooting who or who was taking over what building. they just wanted to not get shot or blown to pieces going to the local rynok to buy some bread.
The people responsible for this mess are in Kiev. Instead of talking Tyanbok sent in the army and the militias attacked. It all could have been avoided. The Novorussians don't need the Ukraine, they are backed by Russia. The only reason the Kiev junta
still functions is because of western monetary support too.
Says who?
These militants (backed by Russia) could have taken much more territories long time ago, if they wanted to.
( Not to mention that Russia could have brought troops in and take over South-East at the same time when it took Crimea.)
Could have taken more territory? Oh really? Well, they lost a strategic city like Mariupol, which they'd love to take back, and certainly would if Ukrainian troops were to withdraw. The fact is, Russian-controlled militants routinely violate the Minsk agreements. The Minsk agreements aren't worth much. Critically, they prevent Ukraine from launching major offensives, or from doing much of anything other than being sitting ducks until Russian terrorists decide to attack (from civilian areas, so they they can accuse Ukrainians of attacking civilians when they fire back).
Meanwhile, if the separatists were to capture more territory (such as Mariupol) Ukraine would have no real recourse to reacquire it. That's the essence of the problem. There's no way to enforce it. Russia is the thief and the aggressor. Rightfully, they shouldn't even be in their current bargaining position vis-a-vis compromises. They will only take more if Ukraine gives in.
Who proposed? What ground? Does population of Donbass wants any "UN peacekeepers" there?
What's Putin's goal in all this and do you know it for sure?
You can find this information online, who proposed the UN peacekeepers at the UN (hint, the government of Ukraine). The ground: occupied by the LNR and DNR. The population of Donbas is not represented by anyone so its hard to ask them directly (ask who, the people still residing in occupied territory? Russian installed commanders?). We all know why they would not want peacekeepers because peace would not give Putin influence over Ukraine.
Yes I know Putin's goal in all this: To show that revolutions cannot be successful, especially revolutions against people he supports.
*sigh, said Zaharchenko, the DNR commander. You need to find the truth a better way than this...
Just saying they could have taken more territory when they tried and clearly failed doesn't really mean they don't have more ground for lack of trying.
You obviously didn't follow what happened in the winter of 2014 - 2015. The militias and Ukr army were non functional, even with the mercenaries they had with them. The Russians told the Novorussians to lay off outside of Mariupol and they retreated. In the Gorlivka and Andreevka areas the militias were falling to pieces and in Luhansk the Russians said to back off too. The militias in Luhansk had nothing in front of them after they mopped up Saur Moglia and a few other places. The Ukrainians had lost 90% of their fighting force. It would have been a cake walk to Kharkov.
UN peacekeepers would hold the current line, the DNR/LNR and Russia have already made it crystal clear there would not be any occupation by the UN of Novorussia. Take it or leave it.
Novorussians still remember the lives lost, being called terrorists and criminals. The hatred runs very deep and with good reason. Are the mad dogs in the militias going to be brought to justice? There was some real murderous bastards with guns among them. Most of the people didn't care who was shooting who or who was taking over what building. they just wanted to not get shot or blown to pieces going to the local rynok to buy some bread.
The people responsible for this mess are in Kiev. Instead of talking Tyanbok sent in the army and the militias attacked. It all could have been avoided. The Novorussians don't need the Ukraine, they are backed by Russia. The only reason the Kiev junta
still functions is because of western monetary support too.
There are no such thing as Novorussians. The only place justice is not occurring is in occupied territory.
The people responsible for this mess are those who took over buildings in the Donbas (hint, not Ukrainians) and the people who took up arms against Ukraine's army when it arrived and started reasserting control over its own country (hint, not Ukrainians).
You obviously didn't follow what happened in the winter of 2014 - 2015. The militias and Ukr army were non functional, even with the mercenaries they had with them. The Russians told the Novorussians to lay off outside of Mariupol and they retreated. In the Gorlivka and Andreevka areas the militias were falling to pieces and in Luhansk the Russians said to back off too. The militias in Luhansk had nothing in front of them after they mopped up Saur Moglia and a few other places. The Ukrainians had lost 90% of their fighting force. It would have been a cake walk to Kharkov.
Yes, it's my understanding as well.
That all the advances ( Mariupol including) were called off from Moscow.
Putin ( or rather people behind him) didn't want these territories for real - they've had different plan in mind. The question is whether this plan is working or not.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
