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There is no end to Putin's reign of terror. They murder civilians without a second thought. They killed an American to send a message to the USA: you are next.
The Russian army has artillery pieces set all around outside Kyiv, and they are just lobbing in 152mm and 203mm high explosive artillery shells from miles away (depending on the specific gun and round, the range of these howitzers can be 20 miles), that are gradually reducing the great city to rubble. They are also hitting Kyiv with missiles and bombs, but the artillery shellling seems to be the worst. There is no rhyme or reason to this, just mass destruction.
You can see here a line of Russian artillery pieces in a field outside Kyiv, firing in the same direction. One of them is actually caught in the moment of the shell launching, the firey muzzle blast visible, while the rest all have clouds of smoke floating just in front, having just fired.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 03-13-2022 at 02:53 PM..
You keep saying that the Russian army is attacking the Nazis and liberating Ukrainians. But Ukrainians aren't speaking about being held hostage by Nazis. They are however, complaining about having their homes destroyed, being shot, and being torn to pieces and incinerated by Russian army bombs, missiles and artiillery shells.
Volnovakha is about an hour away from Mariupol judging by the map.
As for the rest - on the hotline that I am listening to, people from all other locations in South-East are talking about the situation in their cities/villages.
There is no one from Mariupol coming on line within the last few days.
Why would you object to special forces training for Ukrainian troops? Look what they are facing.
Listening to videos made over time (2014 to date), it's striking how the degree of support for groups like right sector grew due to opposition to RUSSIA, and its actions. A secondary theme is the Ukrainian government was too weak and corrupt to adequately deal with Putin leading to anti-Ukrainian government sentiment.
As you've noted, a number of Russian nationals came to Ukraine to join various battalions. Some no doubt are motivated by the so-called lifestyle. But I would not discount their sometimes stated motivation which was to 'take a stand for freedom' to once again oppose RUSSIA by fighting in Ukraine.
Ukraine pretty much let Crimea go, although global sanctions resulted and Crimea is not recognized as part of Russia. Crimea was largely ethnic Russian with Ukrainians and Tatars a minority. That was NOT the case for Donbass, where the majority even though Russian-speaking are ethnic Ukrainian (last census of 2001).
So, yes, Ukrainians in contrast to Crimea have fought for Donbass. Maidan did lead to internal dissent. Corruption is a Ukrainian (and apparently Russian) problem. But to go from there to this 2014-2022 war, where Russia attacks Ukraine in the name of protecting ethnic Russians in another country - more nationalism - is outrageous.
Not all Russian-speakers want this, by far. Not all Ukrainians who oppose Russia are Nazis. More, these so-called nationalists groups are small in number and largely rose due to RUSSIAN aggression. That in the larger population fanned Ukrainian nationalism. For example, take the Azov Battalion:
It did not exist until May 2014. Formed from two small preexisting nationalist-ethnic fringe groups, one of which used force to displace Vietnamese and Uzbeks who were outcompeting Ukrainians at a market. It then started recruiting volunteers to defend Ukraine against Russia, funded by Ukrainian oligarchs like Igor Kolomoisky, then-governor of the Dnipropetrovska region. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...-azov-regiment
Kolonoisky like no doubt most oligarchs is corrupt. According to Putin, Roman Abramovich has been cheated by Igor Kolomoyskyi. He was appointed government of Dnipropetrovska at the beginning of the Donbass conflict.
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By the way, this infuriated Putin. Putin claimed that Kolomoyskyi had reneged on a contract with Abramovich, saying "He [Kolomoyskyi] even managed to cheat our Roman Abramovich two or three years ago. Scammed him, as our intellectuals like to say. They signed some deal, Abramovich transferred several billion dollars, while this guy never delivered and pocketed the money. When I asked him [Abramovich]: "Why did you do it?" he said: "I never thought this was possible. https://genius.com/Vladimir-putin-pr...aine-annotated
Abramovich, of course, is a close Putin associate who was arrested for theft of Russian governmental property in 1992 as he profited from the dissolution of the USSR. So what is this: the battle of the corrupt Russian oligarchs against the Ukrainian oligarchs?
And what of Dnipropetrovska defended from 2014 onward by oligarch-created militias. Russian separatist sentiment was appeased, in part. A leader or two encouraged to "leave town."
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While these strong-arm tactics have been criticized by some, the governor enjoys strong support from the local population. “I don’t care if he’s like Hitler, as long as he prevents war coming here,†says a local restaurateur. With more refugees from the troubled East arriving every day, and ominous reports of war dominating the news, residents are counting their blessings and hoping that their city stays unscathed. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-to...-to-stop-putin
The comparison to Hitler is probably to his authoritarian style for Kolonoisky is Jewish. The larger point here is not to defend tactics but to point out that much of this - the militias, new patriotism that for a minority crossed the line into rampant ethnic nationalism - arose AFTER Putin began encouraging Russian separatism and violence.
It's really hard not to conclude Putin worked to destabilize Ukraine then used that as an excuse for his retro-historical expansionism. A clever man, except this time he's destabilized the post-USSR western world that Russia certainly economically participated in.
When the Russian Orthodoxy Church started in Kiev, there was no "Moscow" yet even as a city. It showed up on the map of the "Kievan Rus'" as a small fort only about 100 years later. ( in 1147)
What is "behave?"
This is Ukrainian Church under Moscow's patriarchy - "крёÑтный ход" in Kiev, commemorating 1033 years since the Christianization of Russia.
Of RUSSIA, do you understand that? And this includes "Russia proper" and Kiev/Ukraine alike.
When I am watching this again NOW, I have only one thought;
Why oh why my dear Americans you had to interfere into THAT part of the world?
These people didn't have much to begin with - no SUVs, no McMansions...
But you took away even what little they've had, and set them to fight against each other.
I understand enough. I think you don't understand about Kiev and Moscow because you challenged what I said by repeating what I said.
They say they are believers and belongers, but they don't behave that way by going to church. Attendance is low in countries with 70%+ believers and belongers. They don't behave.
Why would you object to special forces training for Ukrainian troops? Look what they are facing.
It's the other way around -
they are "facing" what they are facing now, precisely because of NATO/Western powers involvement.
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Listening to videos made over time (2014 to date), it's striking how the degree of support for groups like right sector grew due to opposition to RUSSIA, and its actions.
What "actions" exactly?
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A secondary theme is the Ukrainian government was too weak and corrupt to adequately deal with Putin leading to anti-Ukrainian government sentiment.
If there wouldn't have been widely-spread "anti-government sentiment" (anti this newly-installed by America puppet government,) what could Putin do?
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As you've noted, a number of Russian nationals came to Ukraine to join various battalions. Some no doubt are motivated by the so-called lifestyle. But I would not discount their sometimes stated motivation which was to 'take a stand for freedom' to once again oppose RUSSIA by fighting in Ukraine.
What "freedom?"
I have to bring to your attention the ROA - the so called "Russian Liberation Army," fighting on Hitler's side.
Were they too "fighting for freedom?"
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Ukraine pretty much let Crimea go, although global sanctions resulted and Crimea is not recognized as part of Russia. Crimea was largely ethnic Russian with Ukrainians and Tatars a minority. That was NOT the case for Donbass, where the majority even though Russian-speaking are ethnic Ukrainian (last census of 2001).
So?
The result was still the same - they didn't want anything to do with the new puppet Nationalist government in Kiev, that started separating people of Ukraine into "Russians, "true Ukrainians" and Ukrainians of the "second sort" ( those coming from the South-Eastern parts of Ukraine, since for WESTERN Ukrainians they were the same as ethnic Russians. The only way they could "redeem their sin" was to join the Nationalist organizations, to prove their loyalty to the Nationalist Ukrainian state."
So the result in Donbass was the same as in Crimea - this one.
The only big difference between Donbass and Crimea was that Putin was interested in Crimea and not interested in Donbass ( and other South-Eastern Russian-speaking cities, that were hoping for Russia's support. )
But he betrayed them all - he didn't want any of those territories, although he could easily take them at that point.
But he took Crimea, since it was essential from the military strategic point of view.
It was a MUST for Russia's geopolitical security, yes.
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So, yes, Ukrainians in contrast to Crimea have fought for Donbass.
They fought for Donbass, because they KNEW that Putin didn't want it all that much to begin with. Unlike Crimea, where such fight would be a "no go," with Russians troops firmly stationed there.
Hence - not so old reference of the Nationalists - "Donbass is like a loyal dog that is scratching the door of his master, but the master doesn't let him in."
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Maidan did lead to internal dissent.
What kind of "dissent"?
Do you know exactly?
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Corruption is a Ukrainian (and apparently Russian) problem.
That's why the Russians are laughing their heads of, when the West is talking about the "corruption" of the previous Yanukovich government, while presenting the new puppet government as some kind of "freedom and democracy."
There was more freedom and democracy under Yanukovich in Ukraine actually, now when I think of it.
And most likely less corruption too.
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But to go from there to this 2014-2022 war, where Russia attacks Ukraine in the name of protecting ethnic Russians
Back in 2014 this would be 100% justified - and this would go both to Russians and Eastern Ukrainians alike.
But Putin betrayed them as I already said.
By now he realized his major mistake, and he still uses the "protection" as a pretext, but at this point this is more of course about the NATO/American takeover of Ukraine, and thus direct military threat to Russia.
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in another country - more nationalism - is outrageous.
I see nothing "outrageous" about it - rather logical.
But then, again, I greatly dislike the Nazi in any shape and form.
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Not all Russian-speakers want this, by far. Not all Ukrainians who oppose Russia are Nazis.
No doubt, and this is the group of people I watch the most in political sense of it.
It all depends what "opposing Russia" means exactly in every individual case.
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More, these so-called nationalists groups are small in number and largely rose due to RUSSIAN aggression.
These Nationalist groups control the whole society with their guns and fists ( even though they are not the largest segment of population - it's true.)
That's first, and second - I ask again - WHAT RUSSIAN AGGRESSION back in 2014 you are talking about exactly?
Any idea?
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That in the larger population fanned Ukrainian nationalism. For example, take the Azov Battalion:
We can't proceed any further, sorry, until you can answer my previous question I think...
I understand enough. I think you don't understand about Kiev and Moscow because you challenged what I said by repeating what I said.
What is that I don't understand?
The Orthodox Church started in Kiev back in the 1000ies, and the head of church ( the Patriarch) moved since then to every new capital of Russia, ( i.e. from Kiev to Vladimir, and then finally to Moscow.
That is if to make the long story short.
It's true that the part of old Russian territories were left behind at certain point in time ( what's now "Ukraine" first of all,) ( don't remember off top what happened to their churches back then, but the whole reason they asked for Moscow's protection back in the 1600ies, was because they remained Orthodox, while the Catholic Poland was subjugating them.
And that's how they became part of the Moscow's Patriarchy again.
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They say they are believers and belongers, but they don't behave that way by going to church. Attendance is low in countries with 70%+ believers and belongers. They don't behave.
And who ( according to you) are "belongers" and who ( according to you) "behave"?
What is that I don't understand?
The Orthodox Church started in Kiev back in the 1000ies, and the head of church ( the Patriarch) moved since then to every new capital of Russia, ( i.e. from Kiev to Vladimir, and then finally to Moscow.
That is if to make the long story short.
It's true that the part of old Russian territories were left behind at certain point in time ( what's now "Ukraine" first of all,) ( don't remember off top what happened to their churches back then, but the whole reason they asked for Moscow's protection back in the 1600ies, was because they remained Orthodox, while the Catholic Poland was subjugating them.
And that's how they became part of the Moscow's Patriarchy again.
And who ( according to you) are "belongers" and who ( according to you) "behave"?
You clearly didn't understand that I explained to you why I thought you didn't understand.
The church numbers are from Pew.
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