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Old 12-09-2014, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Novy Jicin, Czech Republic
257 posts, read 518,128 times
Reputation: 389

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Regarding WW2 - Well, Czechoslovakia also launched an attack against the USSR, what did you expect, the USSR not to retaliate?

Regarding 1968 - Russia has never attacked the Czech Republic nor Czechoslovakia. The Warsaw Pact invaded spearheaded by the USSR; I have no idea how you pin this on Russia, Russia was just one of the 15 republics of the USSR at the time. If you are speaking to ethnicity, the the Soviet leader and most of the top leaders in the invasion were Ukrainian.
When exactly did Czechoslovakia launch attack against the USSR? During the WW2 the country did not exist. What is now known as Czech Republic was under Nazi Germany´s control back then, Slovak´s puppet regime truly attacked the Soviet Union along with the Nazis.
The Warsaw Pact was organized and controlled by the Soviets. It is not a secret. Russia was "just" one of the 15 republics...you can not be serious. As for Brezhnev´s nationality, some documents say he was Russian, others say he was Ukrainian. But that is not my point and I do not think it is important.
And to answer your question. It is not only me who "pin" this on Russians. Basically the whole population do that because in our way of thinking Soviet means Russian. It is simple. And even if you were right about this, the worst thing is that when you ask an average Russian about that, they have no clue that something like that happened. It looks like they have never heard about Hungary 1956 or Czechoslovakia 1968. And as for the old generation in Russia, they simply think they had right to do that. Not all of them of course but people who do not follow official regime´s interpretation of history are considered to be pariahs, traitors etc.
There were people in the USSR back then who stood up for Czechoslovakia. For example Missis Natalya Gorbanevska who recently passed away. A brave woman who was called "psycho" and was put in a psychiatric hospital. She and a bunch of her friends protested at the Red Square after finding out what was going on in Prague. As I said before she ended up living in a psychyatric hospital because of that...
Just to be clear. I am not saying that I hate Russians. I feel kind of sorry for them. I just do not want their manners, their way of solving problems being seen in my country nor anywhere in Europe.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:08 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
However I care about my country´s past and future. And my country was not attacked and occupied by the Americans who, in 1945, on the other hand liberated part of Czechoslovakia..I have no reason to be angry at them.
I think that you need to look at your countrys past and ask yourself a question as all Europeans should.

Since WWII your country has been occupied. When the Soviet Union ceased to be you had a brief period of freedom when you had a chance to go your own way. Unfortunately you chose another master.

When are Europeans going to be their own masters?
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:09 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
I am Czech. And my country was attacked and occupied by the Russians, not by the Americans.
The Soviet Union liberated you from Nazi occupation, they did not attack you.

Quote:
However from the then Russian/Soviet politicians point of view it was not about liberating, it was about conquering.
Wrong. It was about the US occupation of Europe and the formation of NATO. The USSR formed the Warsaw Pact in response for good reason. You unfortunately had no choice in the matter.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:16 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiri View Post
When exactly did Czechoslovakia launch attack against the USSR? During the WW2 the country did not exist. What is now known as Czech Republic was under Nazi Germany´s control back then, Slovak´s puppet regime truly attacked the Soviet Union along with the Nazis.
The Warsaw Pact was organized and controlled by the Soviets. It is not a secret.
No, it's not a secret, but you'll find a lot of interesting details to why it happened, if you are willing to dig, not to confirm to "traditional" thinking and cliches.


In March 1954, the USSR, fearing "the restoration of German Militarism" in West Germany, requested admission to NATO.[10][11][12] By then, laws had already been passed in West Germany ending denazification [13][14] and the Gehlen Organization, predecessor of the West German Federal Intelligence Service, was fully operative and employing hundreds of ex-Nazis.[15]
The Soviet request to join NATO arose in the aftermath of the Berlin Conference of January–February 1954. Soviet foreign minister Molotov made different proposals to have Germany reunified[16] and elections for a pan-German government,[17] under conditions of withdrawal of the four powers armies and German neutrality,[18] but all were refused by the other foreign ministers, Dulles (USA), Eden (UK) and Bidault (France).[19] Proposals for the reunification of Germany were nothing new: earlier in 1952, talks about a German reunification ended after the United Kingdom, France, and the United States insisted that a unified Germany should not be neutral and should be free to join the European Defence Community and rearm.[citation needed]
Consequently Molotov, fearing that EDC would be directed in the future against the USSR therefore "seeking to prevent the formation of groups of European States directed against other European States",[20] made a proposal for a General European Treaty on Collective Security in Europe "open to all European States without regard as to their social systems"[20] which would have included the unified Germany (thus making the EDC – perceived by the USSR as a threat – unusable). But again, Eden, Dulles and Bidault opposed the proposal.[21]
One month later, the proposed European Treaty was rejected not only by supporters of the EDC but also by western opponents of the European Defense Community (like French Gaullist leader Palewski) who perceived it as "unacceptable in its present form because it excludes the USA from participation in the collective security system in Europe".[22] The Soviets then decided to make a new proposal to the governments of the USA, UK and France stating to accept the participation of the USA in the proposed General European Agreement.[22] And considering that another argument deployed against the Soviet proposal was that it was perceived by western powers as "directed against the North Atlantic Pact and its liquidation",[22][23] the Soviets decided to declare their "readiness to examine jointly with other interested parties the question of the participation of the USSR in the North Atlantic bloc", specifying that "the admittance of the USA into the General European Agreement should not be conditional on the three western powers agreeing to the USSR joining the North Atlantic Pact".[22]
Again all proposals, including the request to join NATO, were rejected by UK, US, and French governments shortly after.[12][24] Emblematic was the position of British General Hastings Ismay, supporter of NATO expansion, who said that NATO "must grow until the whole free world gets under one umbrella."[25] He opposed the request to join NATO made by the USSR in 1954[26] saying that "the Soviet request to join NATO is like an unrepentant burglar requesting to join the police force"

Warsaw Pact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And that's why the Warsaw Pact came about - as a response to all above.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:37 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
Reputation: 9092
Great Post Erasure. You're more patient than I am, I wasn't going to waste my time dragging Jiri to the facts. Anyone seeking the truth will look for it themselves.

Once again just who is pressing for conflict? Escalating?

Kiev Ukraine News Blog: Ukraine: Lethal Aid And Weapons Authorized By U.S. House Resolution 758, Will Obama Take On Vladimir Putin?

Do not try to bullchit me.
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Old 12-09-2014, 10:31 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Great Post Erasure. You're more patient than I am, I wasn't going to waste my time dragging Jiri to the facts. Anyone seeking the truth will look for it themselves.

Once again just who is pressing for conflict? Escalating?

Kiev Ukraine News Blog: Ukraine: Lethal Aid And Weapons Authorized By U.S. House Resolution 758, Will Obama Take On Vladimir Putin?

Do not try to bullchit me.
Just few peculiar details here and there.
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Old 12-10-2014, 04:22 AM
 
Location: Russia, Penza
84 posts, read 87,587 times
Reputation: 118
Default Veterans and official

Some men are coming in the cabinet of a deputy of the mayor of the Ukrainian city Severodonetsk.

- Why the Ukrainian banner /Ukr: "prapor"/ has been removed?
- I went to work and it had been so yet. Somebody has removed it at night. It's hard for me to hang it back again.
- Hang it just now to the place where it was. We were wounded defending it. I have brought it from the captivity. If you won't do it I shall come and throw you away through the window!
- Keep calm or I shall go away and you will do the work instead of me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xg468ttwp4
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,234,324 times
Reputation: 1742
Good article.

From Da to Nyet: How U.S. Diplomacy Helped Transform Russia from Potential Ally into Strategic Adversary | The National Interest

UPD: and http://www.theamericanconservative.c...r-with-russia/

Last edited by Maksim_Frolov; 12-10-2014 at 06:47 AM..
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:03 AM
 
4,449 posts, read 4,618,183 times
Reputation: 3146
Re: 'the Russians 'liberating' Czechoslovakia'..

i usually try to temper myself here but this incredible, jaundiced and asinine remark truly shows how some would like to re formulate history to conform to their interpretation of what occurred in postwar Eastern Europe. 'Traditional' history is not off the mark with the invasion of both Czechslovakia and Hungary by Soviet armed forces. They suppressed them with brutal fervor. The Russian boot was alive and kicking in 56 and 68. They brooked no dissent. It's the Russian way or the highway.
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Old 12-10-2014, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,234,324 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
They brooked no dissent. It's the Russian way or the highway.
As you all easy to generalize.
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