Covid virus in phoenix (professor, close to, police)

[FlurryCat]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

No more data please.

Yeah, we wouldn't want any pesky facts getting in the way of trying to conflate two very different things -- People gathering indoors without masks, and people gathering outdoors, mostly masked.

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

... some screaming without masks (at cops usually)...

Irrelevant. Whether they're screaming at cops, clowns, squirrels, or just shouting that Coke is better than Pepsi, it makes no difference whatsoever. But your disapproval of their cause, which leads to your willingness to dismiss the data showing that they managed to mitigate the risk by being outdoors and masked, is no different than their disapproval of police actions, which led them to ignore the risks of gathering.

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

But if a bunch of morons want to camp out in a city during a pandemic with new people coming in and out everyday that's not a problem. We can't yell at one group and not the other, masks or no masks. Social distancing was also supposed to be very important.

Not all behaviors are equally dangerous. They've already shown us that gathering masked and outdoors is not as dangerous as everybody's "common sense" suggested. Distancing is very important. Wearing a mask is super duper extra very important.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

I agree with your assessment about masks, but a few things just don't add up for me. Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but come on. These people were in VERY large groups, yelling and shouting, for days on end. On top of that, a lot of these areas are also some of the poorest areas in the Twin Cities metro. So they have two strikes against them - poverty and large gatherings. Sure, they were outside, but there are more factors at play here.

Also, one other thing I just thought of. I would all but guarantee many of the protesters do not actually reside in the areas they were protesting at. A lot of the protesters were white 20 somethings fighting for social justice. Many of them are probably in college or still live with their parents. I highly doubt they live in the riot-stricken neighborhoods. So I don't think many of them would be making the trek back down to that area to get tested. Just a thought.

There are other studies that have found exactly the same thing, I've posted them here before but I won't do it again, I think there is too much confirmation bias to try to change minds about this, even with scientific evidence.

[FlurryCat]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

There are other studies that have found exactly the same thing, I've posted them here before but I won't do it again, I think there is too much confirmation bias to try to change minds about this, even with scientific evidence.

I'll admit that my "common sense" told me these gatherings would be a super-spreading nightmare. But common sense tells us to see what is obvious, and without any data nothing could be obvious. So I guess it was more "intuition," which in this case failed me (and many others).


Am I going to the next demonstration? No way. But I feel a lot better about the wife being part of the neighborhood hen parties out on the sidewalk (with masks and some distance).

[Ponderosa]

I just saw where Varsity Tavern in Tempe had their liquor license suspended for allegations that they allowed and/or required employees with covid positive tests and symptoms to come to work!

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by FlurryCat

Yeah, we wouldn't want any pesky facts getting in the way of trying to conflate two very different things -- People gathering indoors without masks, and people gathering outdoors, mostly masked.

The data comment was to MN because I know he will bury me with enough reading to last the weekend. But if you have info showing everyone over the course of multi-day protests was accounted for and tested I'll open up a slot.

Irrelevant. Whether they're screaming at cops, clowns, squirrels, or just shouting that Coke is better than Pepsi, it makes no difference whatsoever. But your disapproval of their cause, which leads to your willingness to dismiss the data showing that they managed to mitigate the risk by being outdoors and masked, is no different than their disapproval of police actions, which led them to ignore the risks of gathering.

Relevance is your opinion. Yeah, I am against calling for cops to be killed.

Not all behaviors are equally dangerous. They've already shown us that gathering masked and outdoors is not as dangerous as everybody's "common sense" suggested. Distancing is very important. Wearing a mask is super duper extra very important.

Who is this they?


CDC guidelines:
Wash hands often.
Avoid close contact.
Cover your mouth and nose around others (with anything apparently, even a mask that you may or may not clean)
Clean and disinfect.


Now look at the pics from the current NYC sleep in/protest and tell me that behavior in the US epicenter of the virus should be acceptable:
https://nypost.com/2020/07/01/inside...-encampment/#1


Moreover, the optics of this are terrible. Tell everyone to where a mask and avoid large gatherings unless they are trying to de-fund the police (among other brilliant ideas) and promote the idea of killing cops.

[belgirl]

Originally Posted by FlurryCat

Yeah, we wouldn't want any pesky facts getting in the way of trying to conflate two very different things -- People gathering indoors without masks, and people gathering outdoors, mostly masked.




Irrelevant. Whether they're screaming at cops, clowns, squirrels, or just shouting that Coke is better than Pepsi, it makes no difference whatsoever. But your disapproval of their cause, which leads to your willingness to dismiss the data showing that they managed to mitigate the risk by being outdoors and masked, is no different than their disapproval of police actions, which led them to ignore the risks of gathering.




Not all behaviors are equally dangerous. They've already shown us that gathering masked and outdoors is not as dangerous as everybody's "common sense" suggested. Distancing is very important. Wearing a mask is super duper extra very important.

Actually masks don't do much if you don't socially distance.

[LBTRS]

I had no idea what it was until Detroit mentioned Stonewall last weekend...I looked it up to educate myself and many/most of those in the pride parades were not wearing masks.

If you ask me, regardless of what you're protesting, opening up, BLM, gay pride, etc. it is stupid to be doing so during a pandemic. That goes for rallies also...

They had some event at Metrocenter Mall live streaming the other night on YouTube. Wasn't a mask to be seen in any of the hundreds of idiots that were out there either. Mostly young people is what was shown.

You can't get me into a grocery store let alone one of those events.

Everyone have a safe 4th.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by belgirl

Actually masks don't do much if you don't socially distance.

This is absolutely false and why the recommendation is to use masks especially when you CANNOT distance.

Are we actually back to ‘masks don’t work’ (mostly)?

[DetroitN8V]

This is from yesterday. We’re the laughing stock of the world.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

No more data please.
Here's my issue:
MN tested 13k and said "hey, no spike."
Boston tests 3k and said "hey, no spike."
I hear you on the transmission, but large crowds are gathering (linking arms now), some screaming without masks (at cops usually) and some are living in squalor at various locals. For anyone to even imply that this behavior is okay compared to other behaviors leads to the idea that rules and suggestions don't apply to everyone. Hence the 'forget this' attitude of so many.

Let's consider another huge variable. The crowds/protesters ebb and flow throughout the day. Meaning, IF a COVID bandana "mask" wearer is screaming behind someone all the while shedding off the virus and later, is screaming at an another set of heads, maybe a lot less virus is transferred than people assumed. We can compare this to people who are talking for 10 minutes at a bar while shouting in the ear of another. Or a person chomping food at a restaurant while talking to the person 3 feet across the table....... For an hour.

re: your 13K and 3K tests statement. While not remotely close to a perfect experiment, it's way more data than we need to get a strong correlation coefficient. So the only question remaining is did we sample the right people. Assuming the article is correct, the answer is yes.

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

If I zip through a store for 10 minutes without a mask and come within 10 feet of less than 10 people, I'm a problem.

No. I predict the chances of spreading COVID would be close zero for your specific example. But by not wearing a mask it is semi-disrespectful.