Covid virus in phoenix (Tempe: nightclub, nonstop, better)

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

No. I predict the chances of spreading COVID would be close zero for your specific example. But by not wearing a mask it is semi-disrespectful.

Disrespectful and illegal.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Now look at the pics from the current NYC sleep in/protest and tell me that behavior in the US epicenter of the virus should be acceptable:
https://nypost.com/2020/07/01/inside...-encampment/#1

The people who are camping out and maskless are:
1.) staying put (no ebb and flow).
2.) not wearing masks at night.

Hence, I predict that the pictured NYC group will be spreading the virus at a much higher rate. To date, the "protesters are not showing a spike" articles and data were not referring to those yahoos.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

This is from yesterday. We’re the laughing stock of the world.

More like the world's rectal artery! It's sickening how Arizona is regularly in the negative national spotlight, and of course, it has a negative impact on the state's major city/metro area. People aren't going to want to visit here (let alone move here) as much now that we're one of COVID hot spots in the entire world. It's not that I dislike AZ ... in fact, I'm proud to be a native, but I'm fed up with all the idiocy here which causes us to be looked down on by everybody else.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

More like the world's rectal artery! It's sickening how Arizona is regularly in the negative national spotlight, and of course, it has a negative impact on the state's major city/metro area. People aren't going to want to visit here (let alone move here) as much now that we're one of COVID hot spots in the entire world. It's not that I dislike AZ ... in fact, I'm proud to be a native, but I'm fed up with all the idiocy here which causes us to be looked down on by everybody else.

Agreed, however, you were a vocal objector to the restrictions that other places took putting them in a much better position than we are now. Has your stance changed now that the different approaches have been proven out with drastically varying results?

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by belgirl

Actually masks don't do much if you don't socially distance.

Sure they do! from https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...cientists.html

"Led by Professor Yuen Kwok-yung, one of the world's top coronavirus experts.... The researchers found non-contact transmission of the virus could be reduced by more than 60 percent when the masks were used.

Two thirds of the healthy hamsters were infected within a week if no masks were applied.

The infection rate plunged to just over 15 percent when surgical masks were put on the cage of the infected animals and by about 35 percent when placed on the cage with the healthy hamsters."

If you want dozen more studies, just ask.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Let's consider another huge variable. The crowds/protesters ebb and flow throughout the day. Meaning, IF a COVID bandana "mask" wearer is screaming behind someone all the while shedding off the virus and later, is screaming at an another set of heads, maybe a lot less virus is transferred than people assumed. We can compare this to people who are talking for 10 minutes at a bar while shouting in the ear of another. Or a person chomping food at a restaurant while talking to the person 3 feet across the table....... For an hour.

re: your 13K and 3K tests statement. While not remotely close to a perfect experiment, it's way more data than we need to get a strong correlation coefficient. So the only question remaining is did we sample the right people. Assuming the article is correct, the answer is yes.



No. I predict the chances of spreading COVID would be close zero for your specific example. But by not wearing a mask it is semi-disrespectful.

The screamers might be spreading or might not be, we'll probably never know unless they get tested over and over, especially if they are travelers. It's just bad risk reward and bad optics. Or it isn't.



As for the food thing, the founder of CD had a tweet awhile back saying music in bars and restaurants should now be lower so people don't have to yell and spit. Thought it was funny/smart.



The 3 and 13 is from a long back and forth Detroit and I had. To me the data was just too random, especially given the fact that serious damage was caused in the name of fighting against the establishment and along comes someone who wants to test and trace you. Not going to happen among a pretty large segment is my guess. My issue with the early reports was how quick they jumped out and said "no spike." Reminded me a bit of Mission Accomplished.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

Agreed, however, you were a vocal objector to the restrictions that other places took putting them in a much better position than we are now. Has your stance changed now that the different approaches have been proven out with drastically varying results?

I was (and still am) highly opposed to the forced closure & restrictions of commerce. It makes absolutely no sense what states like AZ, CA, and TX are doing: close practically everything down, reopen, then do another shutdown. It's a vicious cycle of getting nowhere, and we have proof that the closures weren't very effective as far as stopping the spread. An economic disaster is far worse than this virus when you look at the big picture.

Never was I opposed to social distancing and mask wearing, although I have doubts that even those are completely fool proof. Regardless, making everybody wear masks is a much more reasonable approach than forcing businesses to close & pushing the economy off a cliff. Let businesses stay open, but they need to be much more vigilant about people who go inside without masks. Just like the "no shirt, no shoes, no service rule", masks should also be included. Management & employees at any place of business need to enforce this, and they have every right to make these non compliers leave. If they don't, that's where police action can take over.

I still think personal hygiene and even climate are factors as well. Notice the northern tier of the U.S. has the fewest number of confirmed cases recently, whereas the warm/hot weather places (FL, TX, AZ, CA) have drastic increases. It's not just because people are staying inside more around A/C ventilation ... in fact, many are out & about. The ones who are constantly out & about while not taking precautions are the ones putting themselves & others at risk.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I was (and still am) highly opposed to the forced closure & restrictions of commerce. It makes absolutely no sense what states like AZ, CA, and TX are doing: close practically everything down, reopen, then do another shutdown. It's a vicious cycle of getting nowhere, and we have proof that the closures weren't very effective as far as stopping the spread. An economic disaster is far worse than this virus when you look at the big picture.

Never was I opposed to social distancing and mask wearing, although I have doubts that even those are completely fool proof. Regardless, making everybody wear masks is a much more reasonable approach than forcing businesses to close & pushing the economy off a cliff. Let businesses stay open, but they need to be much more vigilant about people who go inside without masks. Just like the "no shirt, no shoes, no service rule", masks should also be included. Management & employees at any place of business need to enforce this, and they have every right to make these non compliers leave. If they don't, that's where police action can take over.

I still think personal hygiene and even climate are factors as well. Notice the northern tier of the U.S. has the fewest number of confirmed cases recently, whereas the warm/hot weather places (FL, TX, AZ, CA) have drastic increases. It's not just because people are staying inside more around A/C ventilation ... in fact, many are out & about. The ones who are constantly out & about while not taking precautions are the ones putting themselves & others at risk.

Makes sense and seems like a reasonable middle ground.

Enforcement seems to be key and business owners need to be clear of their rights in refusing service. It's not a great position for them to be in, but they have an obligation to protect their employees and customers and can't allow a few rogue morons to jeopardize them.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

No more data please.
Here's my issue:
MN tested 13k and said "hey, no spike."
Boston tests 3k and said "hey, no spike."
I hear you on the transmission, but large crowds are gathering (linking arms now), some screaming without masks (at cops usually) and some are living in squalor at various locals. For anyone to even imply that this behavior is okay compared to other behaviors leads to the idea that rules and suggestions don't apply to everyone. Hence the 'forget this' attitude of so many.

If I zip through a store for 10 minutes without a mask and come within 10 feet of less than 10 people, I'm a problem. But if a bunch of morons want to camp out in a city during a pandemic with new people coming in and out everyday that's not a problem. We can't yell at one group and not the other, masks or no masks. Social distancing was also supposed to be very important.

"no more data please"? Ok, I get that, data would blow a big hole in your theory and we can't have that!

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

"no more data please"? Ok, I get that, data would blow a big hole in your theory and we can't have that!

Already explained the message was to MN. But please enlighten me with all the "data" that shows protests, riots and lootinanies are perfectly safe from the virus because people wear masks, not all the time, but they wear them. They don't social distance, but they wear masks. They don't follow most of the CDC guidelines, but they wear masks, that they may or may not wash once and a while.