Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Quote:
"... all men will be gathered into the love of God.
The only victory love can enjoy is the day when its offer of love
is answered by the return of love.
The only possible final triumph is a universe loved by and in love with God.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Very well said and
oh my gosh, yes, of course. It could be no other way.
I don't make this stuff up...I was given this knowledge...before that
I believed like most Christians...what I was taught to believe.
I think Nate wa responding to hlc, here is the post I think Nate is responding to, though I could be wrong. I do that a lot lol.
yes, that was the post I was referring to. hlc's post
Letting go of the old notion that god will judge us as bad and good is hard to do. I don't believe in the god of the bible. But it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't take anybody.
The closest thing we have to what can be going on is the "rejection" of a child with malice. No way would your god do that.
On the question of accountability. You seem to think that we don't recognize it when you have been told that we will reap what we sow MANY times, and that learning about God's love will be a painful process for many people. You seem to be stuck in the idea that opportunity stops at death, which makes no sense at all. It turns judgement into nothing more than revenge when no possibility of change exists.
err, I don't think you picked up on the sarcasm. Maybe thats a bad on my part.
number one, I don't believe in the after life of the christian religion. So yeah, it stops when we die for me.
no, I say you are part of the universe and you will not be held accountable by the universe when you die. If anything, it will love you until you love yourself. At all times.
I think you still pissed about the other thread. Because I will not "go after" future generation's resources because of the words "born lucky".
err, I don't think you picked up on the sarcasm. Maybe thats a bad on my part.
number one, I don't believe in the after life of the christian religion. So yeah, it stops when we die for me.
no, I say you are part of the universe and you will not be held accountable by the universe when you die. If anything, it will love you until you love yourself. At all times.
I think you still pissed about the other thread. Because I will not "go after" future generation's resources because of the words "born lucky".
I picked up on the sarcasm, and my reply still stands even if you are talking about only in this life. Do you honestly think that the people in that irresponsible position are happier than your daughter with her love and support?
I AM A CONVINCED UNIVERSALIST - By William Barclay (well known Christian Bible expositor) William Barclay
The writings of several dozens of other "convinced universalists." The Authors Page
By William Barclay (well known Bible expositor)
“I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God. The only victory love can enjoy is the day when its offer of love is answered by the return of love. The only possible final triumph is a universe loved by and in love with God.”
[Quoted from William Barclay: A Spiritual Autobiography, William B Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, 1977.]
The writings of several dozens of other "convinced universalists." The Authors Page
What William Barclay says and what the Bible says are two different things. So let us read what He says since He is God, and William Barclay is not God.
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
If universalists agree with society about no parole for hardened criminals and even the death penalty, then they cannot disagree with God eternal torment judgement. Sin separates us from God and is driving us away from the holy God, and so if a sinner dies in unbelief, he was already condemned to that place where nothing good dwells as sin gets worse and worse until death brings its flower on that unredeemned sinner in reaping eternal corruption; the point of no return; the hardened sinner that cannot repent ever.
2 Corinthians 6:1We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Now is the time of salvation when you can be saved in the light of the living. After death, it is too late.
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Once judgment is rendered, how can it be undone? It cannot. For God to keep His word about eternal life for those that have died and for those eventually raptured, then God has to keep His word about eternal torment for all those after they have died in unbelief in never having believed in Jesus Christ.
Very well said and
oh my gosh, yes, of course. It could be no other way.
I don't make this stuff up...I was given this knowledge...before that
I believed like most Christians...what I was taught to believe.
Me too. You HAVE to be given it from G-d I think, because it's so unbelievable to the carnal mind. Peace
I picked up on the sarcasm, and my reply still stands even if you are talking about only in this life. Do you honestly think that the people in that irresponsible position are happier than your daughter with her love and support?
I see. Answer that in that thread. Not that I never knock a topic off the rails, but this one has a clear difference. My apologies.
Yes, I believe the universe accepts us for being exactly as it made us. I really see no rational way to claim that the universe will damn certain people for something as petty as believing in a god.
What God's judgement will achieve.
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – Louis Abbott Chapter Eleven
EVENTUALLY EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED
Everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.
“Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire taught in the scriptures?
The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death (Rev.20:14; 21:8). In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading "hath abolished" is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).
It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the fifteenth chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire which is the second death, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.
The term "resurrection" is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.
It is also apparent from Col. 1:15-20 that the lake of fire is not the end of God's plan for those cast into the fire. See also Ro. 5:18, 19
James Coram.
Note God’s wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive
Universalism doesn't need Jesus if we all end up in heaven without Him......the pipe dream of no judgment denies who God is. God is total love but also just........choices have consequences. Man disobeyed in the garden and the accumulation of sin debt began, a debt sinful man couldn 't pay. Only a holy God could pay the debt for us.
Universalism goes directly against scripture which proclaims ALL have sinned and fallens short of the glory of God. We are ALL born spiritually dead and separated from God.......there will be no heaven ever for those who remain that way. Any thoughts to the contrary are merely denial and escapism........don't buy into it........
Grace and peace
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
