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Universalism doesn't need Jesus if we all end up in heaven without Him......
No Christian Universalist claims that anyone "ends up in heaven" without Jesus. They simply say that what Jesus did/does for one he does/will do for all.
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the pipe dream of no judgment denies who God is.
No Christian Universalist (or any other universalist that I know of) claims there is no judgment.
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God is total love but also just........choices have consequences. Man disobeyed in the garden and the accumulation of sin debt began, a debt sinful man couldn 't pay. Only a holy God could pay the debt for us.
Many Christian Universalists agree with that.
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Universalism goes directly against scripture which proclaims ALL have sinned and fallens short of the glory of God. We are ALL born spiritually dead and separated from God.......there will be no heaven ever for those who remain that way.
Many Christian Universalists agree with this, they simply believe that (according to the bible) no one will remain that way.
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Any thoughts to the contrary are merely denial and escapism........don't buy into it........
Grace and peace
I'm not a Christian, so I think you're wrong on all points. But, you can put your mind at ease now, knowing that many Christian Universalists don't go against anything you brought up.
No Christian Universalist claims that anyone "ends up in heaven" without Jesus. They simply say that what Jesus did/does for one he does/will do for all.
No Christian Universalist (or any other universalist that I know of) claims there is no judgment.
Many Christian Universalists agree with that.
Many Christian Universalists agree with this, they simply believe that (according to the bible) no one will remain that way.
I'm not a Christian, so I think you're wrong on all points. But, you can put your mind at ease now, knowing that many Christian Universalists don't go against anything you brought up.
These people seem to make up what they think universalists MUST be saying in order to avoid thinking about what we ARE saying. That's what we get for dealing with people.....keep on truckin'
[b]These people seem to make up what they think universalists MUST be saying in order to avoid thinking about what we ARE saying. That's what we get for dealing with people.....keep on truckin'
Universalism doesn't need Jesus if we all end up in heaven without Him......the pipe dream of no judgment denies who God is. God is total love but also just........choices have consequences. Man disobeyed in the garden and the accumulation of sin debt began, a debt sinful man couldn 't pay. Only a holy God could pay the debt for us.
Universalism goes directly against scripture which proclaims ALL have sinned and fallens short of the glory of God. We are ALL born spiritually dead and separated from God.......there will be no heaven ever for those who remain that way. Any thoughts to the contrary are merely denial and escapism........don't buy into it........
Grace and peace
How about actually educating yourself on what Christian Universal Reconciliationists and Christian Universalists actually believe before spouting your mostly inaccurate strawman accusations?
This doctrine is one of many that fulfilled the Scripture, as the great falling away must happen before the man of sin is revealed.
Actually, this doctrine has a good chance of nullifying the effect of the religion that men have built on the person rather than the message of Jesus, hopefully by pointing out the need to see and follow that message rather than the religious forms and ideas.
These people seem to make up what they think universalists MUST be saying in order to avoid thinking about what we ARE saying. That's what we get for dealing with people.....keep on truckin'
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
Agreed.
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Originally Posted by Jrhockney
How about actually educating yourself on what Christian Universal Reconciliationists and Christian Universalists actually believe before spouting your mostly inaccurate strawman accusations?
The effort to educate themselves about Christian Universalism is prevented by the accusation that it is a heresy. Closed minds do NOT question anything, nate. It is an insidious Catch 22 designed to promote and perpetuate ancient ignorance as a sign of faith in God.
Actually, this doctrine has a good chance of nullifying the effect of the religion that men have built on the person rather than the message of Jesus, hopefully by pointing out the need to see and follow that message rather than the religious forms and ideas.
This doctrine of yours is a departure from good old time salvation that Yeshua Hamashiach (Hebrew for Jesus the Messiah) taught, and the Scripture teaches that it would happen.
1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
This doctrine of yours is a departure from good old time salvation that Yeshua Hamashiach (Hebrew for Jesus the Messiah) taught, and the Scripture teaches that it would happen.
1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Did you ever consider that the mainstream teaching (the broad path) might be the one that is following "seducing spirits?" That what Jesus taught about the love of God is NOT consistent with the idea that punishment could ever be without possibility of change? Look at the "fruit" of the doctrine rather than the popularity of it.
Did you ever consider that the mainstream teaching (the broad path) might be the one that is following "seducing spirits?" That what Jesus taught about the love of God is NOT consistent with the idea that punishment could ever be without possibility of change? Look at the "fruit" of the doctrine rather than the popularity of it.
Jesus said the road is narrow, so anything mainstream is not narrow.
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