Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-04-2019, 01:18 PM
 
3,216 posts, read 2,384,800 times
Reputation: 1387

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
I fully agree Luhansk and Donetsk should leave Ukraine. The sooner the better.
DKM is against the territorial integrity of Ukraine? I thought that supporting the territorial integrity of Ukraine was an official steadfast policy of the West.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-04-2019, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Russia
2,216 posts, read 1,020,797 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhityk View Post
DKM is against the territorial integrity of Ukraine? I thought that supporting the territorial integrity of Ukraine was an official steadfast policy of the West.
There may have been updates))
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2019, 08:29 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,534,034 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You are conveniently leaving the US out of it, which were there to begin with on Maidan, and by now are building the military bases there.
I probably should translate that Joe Biden video after all, that explains in details how deeply Americans are entrenched in Ukrainian corruption, since they have the ample opportunity to be part of it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=hPjtmdlKzJM


"While the all of Ukraine is watching Poroshenko and Zelensky getting the lab test done -blood, urine and what’s not and determining who is the drug addict and who is not, the US are undergoing the important political process which can influence the whole world, and our country plays one of the key roles in it.
We are talking about an attempt to ground one of the potential presidential candidates, Joe Biden – the main competitor of Donald Trump. You might ask – what Ukraine has got to do with it, but keep on watching and you’ll understand it.
Who is Joe Biden? During an Obama administration he was the vice president, and traditionally he was a curator of relations between Ukraine and the US. He was t curating these relations during Yanukovich presidency and after him. Since after Maidan, American influence on Ukraine has grown, Biden’s role increased as well. Biden’s visits to Kiev were awaited as eagerly as the visits of the State Secretary of the Communist party of the USSR from Moscow back in the day – “He will give us the indispensable directives; he will show us the path.” And it’s true that Biden was in charge of many solutions; for example already after ceasing to be vice-president, he acknowledged that he had blackmailed Poroshenko into dismissing the Attorney General of Ukraine, Shokin. Biden said that Shokin was an obstacle in the fight with corruption. The numerous requests during the conversations with Poroshenko to fire Shokin didn’t accomplish anything. So Biden (according to his own admission) demanded point blank: either you dismiss Shokin (to whom Biden referred as “son the of the bitch”) or Ukraine won’t get American loan guarantees fo 1 billion dollars. After which the Attorney General has been dismissed. All right, dismissal it is (I’ll repeat all this has been stated out in the open by Biden himself back in January 2018, during the meeting of the Council on Foreign relations of the US. Already back then this story brought a lot of questions. First of all why would Biden go after this old man Shokin. It’s true that ex-Attorney General, who was part of the close Poroshenko’s circle, could be asked quite a few questions, in general he was not standing out among the rest of the top corrupt officials. So why was Biden so irritated by Shokin in particular, while he was putting up with the rest “sons of the bitches” of other administrative departments, for example of SBU ( Security Service of Ukraine)? That was not clear.
However with time some interesting details of this story popped up, but for that we need to go back all the way to 2014.
In Yanukovich cabinet some Nikolai Zlochevsky served as the Minister of Ecology, who established a company that he named “Burisma.” This company owned a few oil fields. After Maidan Zlochevsky ( as other Yanukovich men) started having big problems – the criminal cases open against him, the attempts to raid his business and so on. But unlike the rest of Yanukovich men who left for Moscow, Zlochevsky headed in Western direction instead. He invited the son of Joe Biden – Hunter Biden on the board of directors and Devon Archer, who was the business partner of the step-son of John Kerry ( then Secretary of State under Obama Presidency.) And it just happened to be so, that all the criminal investigations opened against Burisma and against Zlochevsky personally have been miraculously closed. Justice the Ukrainian way, you know)))
This whole story was not a secret; already back in 2115 the New York Times was writing an article that such obvious ties between the family of the US officials with Ukrainian ex- top official with questionable reputation undermines the trust in official statements of the US government determined to fight corruption in Ukraine.
No one remembered this article however, and Joe Biden kept on travelling with lectures, during which he was telling how he was helping to implement reforms in Ukraine.
And recently he announced his decision to run for presidency, thus challenging Trump. And lo and behold, there it went; for example, right away seven women accused him of inappropriate behavior. Never the less the main shot came from Ukraine.
I already told in my blog a story before the first round of election, that close to Lutsenko prosecutor Kulik unexpectedly brought the charges against people close to Poroshenko in connection to S. Kurchenko case – i.e. Gontareva, Lozhkin, Filatov. There were a lot of discussions about it, however very few paid attention that there was one more person on the list, against whom the charges were brought, namely – N. Zlochevsky. He was accused of the money laundry as well.



According to the journalist Vladimir Boiko, there was one more interesting episode in the whole affair; it’s connected to the wiring of money to the companies’ accounts, that were connected to Hunter Biden and Devon Archer.
That’s not where it ends; recently, in “The Hill,” Lutsenko gave an interview, stating that he is prohibited by the US ambassador Jovanovich to open criminal investigations against certain people."




From this point on, it was easier for me to turn to the “The Hill”, while adding to the said above, that Shekin indeed confirmed that he was fired for investigating “Burisma.”



https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...obe-is-revived


So much for "Russia's war on Ukraine" and "proud independent Ukraine" standing up on its own "against Russia and her "puppet states in Donbass."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-06-2019, 12:01 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,854,455 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhityk View Post
DKM is against the territorial integrity of Ukraine? I thought that supporting the territorial integrity of Ukraine was an official steadfast policy of the West.
This might surprise you but my opinions are my own. I'm not the Western mouthpiece.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-06-2019, 12:06 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,854,455 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You are conveniently leaving the US out of it, which were there to begin with on Maidan, and by now are building the military bases there.
I probably should translate that Joe Biden video after all, that explains in details how deeply Americans are entrenched in Ukrainian corruption, since they have the ample opportunity to be part of it.
No, this is Ukraine vs. Russia. Russia says they are fighting the US to their own people for obvious reasons:

The Donbas army's inability to gain any ground since Feb of 2015.

To give their own soldiers/civilians the morale boosting that they are taking losses fighting a great enemy.

Yes we have 100 or so trainers in Lviv teaching them the basics.

Now, if you saw a full fledged Russian invasion, then the US would certainly get involved. I don't want to speculate on such a thing though because Putin doesn't dare now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2019, 12:19 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,534,034 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
No, this is Ukraine vs. Russia. Russia says they are fighting the US to their own people for obvious reasons:

The Donbas army's inability to gain any ground since Feb of 2015.

To give their own soldiers/civilians the morale boosting that they are taking losses fighting a great enemy.

Yes we have 100 or so trainers in Lviv teaching them the basics.

Now, if you saw a full fledged Russian invasion, then the US would certainly get involved. I don't want to speculate on such a thing though because Putin doesn't dare now.

Right.
For the rest of us, ( those who live in the real world, ) more interesting news are coming from Ukraine as we speak.
It looks like ambassador Jovanovich is called off to Washington *for consultations,* and most likely will be terminated before her job in Ukraine is officially over.
Trump is looking closely at what's going on in Ukraine and makes his own conclusions, so this time around the Ukrainian ambassador is going to be a person of his choice ( since a lot is brewing there.)

Meanwhile, this particular image tells pretty much what's going on in internal Ukrainian politics;

Ze is trying to negotiate the day of his inauguration with the current parliament (Rada);

https://ki.ill.in.ua/m/670x450/24415984.jpg


( Yeah, it's that case when picture is worth thousand words.)


More later...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2019, 01:26 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,854,455 times
Reputation: 6690
Despite Medvedev signing a ban on oil exports to Ukraine, it was revealed today that Russian oil companies will be allowed to export their products anyway. Apparently they realized that this will simply give market share to the competition. Banning your vital companies from exporting is the height of stupidity.

As for Yovanovich, its not unusual to replace an ambassador when a country gets a new president. You're right, its an important post.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2019, 12:30 AM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,534,034 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Despite Medvedev signing a ban on oil exports to Ukraine, it was revealed today that Russian oil companies will be allowed to export their products anyway. Apparently they realized that this will simply give market share to the competition. Banning your vital companies from exporting is the height of stupidity.

Or MAY BE, for those of us who are aware of the true role of Medvedev ( i.e. Putin's puppet, not taking a single step without an approval of his master,) this is all about him rattling his head, while some real changes are taking place behind the scene.


Quote:
As for Yovanovich, its not unusual to replace an ambassador when a country gets a new president. You're right, its an important post.
Yet again, it would be interesting to learn about the specific reasons for this replacement in this case, and that's what "Strana UA" is talking about here;



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD2YXg0fnYo



"..So what do we know so far? According to the newspaper “the Mirror of the week,” Mari Jovanovich is wrapping up her job May 20th, although her term is not over until July. The embassy officials report that Jovanovich left for Washington urgently, “for consultations.”

Already next Saturday, May 11th she has to be back in Kiev, and on May 20 she is returning to Washington. Same information is confirmed by American journalist Chris Miller, and to us it has been confirmed by the former deputy Andrey Arteyomenko, who currently resides in the US and stays in touch with American politicians close to Trump. Jovanovich found herself in the midst of a scandal already before the election in Ukraine, back in March.

Yuri Lutsenko, (Attorney General) in his interview to American media accused Marie Jovanovich in putting pressure on him, not allowing him to open criminal cases against certain officials (although he never specified their names.)


He said in the same interview that he is investigating the interference of Ukraine into American election supporting Clinton’s side, while providing compromising material on Trump’s campaign manager Paul Manafort. We are talking about financial records of the “Party of Regions” here, and about the ties between the corrupt ministers of Yanukovich era with Joe Biden, who so far is the leading competitor of Donald Trump in the future presidential race . This move was regarded as an attempt of Lutsenko ( and his boss Poroshenko) to get Trump’s backing during the Ukrainian election, but didn’t achieve any results when it came to Trump.
Poroshenko lost the election, but Lutsenko’s acknowledgements provoked the scandal in the US, dubbed as “Ukrainegate.”



Trump and his team of course didn’t pass the information provided by the Ukrainian Attorney General and started the attack on two fronts. First one – the interference of Ukraine in American election; as “Strana UA” was reporting before, they considered to interrogate Peter Poroshenko himself ( without whose approval no one would dare to play into Clinton’s hands.) They considered to interrogate the People’s deputy Leshenko, who was one of the masterminds behind the Manafort’s scandal. Artyom Sitnyk is on the same list and some other people.



The second goal that Trump’s team pursues, is the situation with Joe Biden. Let me remind you that his son was getting money from the former minister of Yanukovich cabinet, Nikolai Zlochevsky, for sitting on board of directors of his Burisma company. And as Ukrainian prosecutors state now ( and American media carries on,) it was Biden who started lobbying for Zlochevsky, demanding to close investigation of Burisma. When ( then) Attorney General Shokin refused to comply, Biden blackmailed Poroshenko and succeeded in forcing him to fire Shokin.



The idea behind this scandal in the US to discredit Biden and Democrats in general is understandable, particularly that there is solid ground for that, as we can see. The goal of Lutsenko is understandable too – to get an approval of his masters in the White House, even after the presidency in Ukraine is going to change. The question is – what Jovanovich has got to do with it all?
She is the leftover of the previous Democratic Obama Administration, and worked as Ambassador from 2016; i.e. back from those times when playing in Clinton’s hands, Ukrainian authorities were working on Manafort’s scandal and Jovanovich couldn’t not to be aware of it.

And that means that now she most likely is not interested in “Ukrainegate” investigation, as much as in investigation of Biden’s schemes. And that’s why she has been called off. She is going to be replaced with someone willing to look for proofs of Ukrainian interference in American election and Biden’s trespasses, instead of blocking it. This internal political process in America stands behind the recall of Jovanovich.

This step however is going to bring serious repercussions in Ukrainian politics, since Jovanovich was the main lobbyist of anti-corruption establishment in Ukraine, such as NABU and its head A. Sitnyk. She was the person in charge of this whole “anti-corruption” scheme in Ukraine, creation of the “anti-corruption court” including (which never has been put to work by the way.)

Thanks to her, Sitnyk (and other "Euro-optimists,") felt themselves so secure. Now the hard times are ahead of them, and as I’ve already mentioned, A. Sitnyk himself is under investigation in “Ukrainegate.” Without such powerful protector he will find himself alone among his numerous enemies in Ukraine. It looks like his future destiny is rather sad.


Overall the future of the whole created “anti-corruption” vertical remains uncertain. The authorities were sabotaging it as it was, but without the reprimands from the embassy ( you know which one) it might come to nothing all together. What might be expected as well, is the end of monopoly of policy making in Ukraine by American Democrats ( and closely associated with them George Soros.)


As “Strana UA” wrote before, Soros had certain interest in our gas transportation system, and thus actively participated in creation of different organizations, that would influence Ukrainian politics. Now Republicans can if not downright destroy this whole structure, but at least to downgrade it somewhat and to deprive it of support from Washington.

Another possible outcome is that the change of relations with Russia are on horizon as well. This is not connected with departure of Jovanovich of course, who was only following the orders of the State Department.


Not long time ago Trump had an hour conversation with Putin, after which he twitted two messages; the first one – about the “tremendous potential for good/great relations with Russia,” which immediately brought the speculations regarding the reset button in terms of politics, Ukrainian politics including.
Before the election, Trump needs the success stories in international “hot spots,” which are difficult to achieve without Russia’s cooperation. Venezuela, North Korea, Syria, and of course Ukraine.

Ending war in Ukraine and incorporating Donbass there, is something Trump could get credit for. However, without the fulfilling the political part of it – i.e. giving Donbass a special status, that Ukrainian authorities refuse to do, this is not going to work. They are not willing to compromise, but possibly they will change their point of view, once they will receive a different signal from Washington.



While the investigation of collusion with Moscow was going on, Trump’s hands were tied. Any compromises with Moscow were dangerous for him. But after Muller’s report on absence of any ties between him and Kremlin, the concepts change, and peace in Donbass might become more reachable.
The direction of things to come will become more clear after the fate of the special envoy in Ukraine, Kurt Volker will become known.
Traditionally, he was professing the hawkish point of view, similar to Poroshenko’s – no compromises with Moscow.

But according to information coming from former deputy Andrey Artyomenko, Volker is going to be soon removed from his position. Judging by the new person who will replace him, as much as the person who will replace Jovanovich, we will be able to learn whether Washington is willing to reach any compromise in Donbass.

Judging by American media, a lot of people in State Department disagree with Trump’s desire to improve relations with Russia. Therefore, there might be different versions of development of events. We will be following them, and as usual will report it to you in the most clear and understandable manner."

Last edited by erasure; 05-08-2019 at 01:22 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2019, 01:38 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,854,455 times
Reputation: 6690
Trump was saying the obvious, that good relations are desired. However, you seem to miss the parts where he clearly expressed what that means to him. Giving up military support for the puppets in Eastern Ukraine being the most crucial part, but also other things. He won't drop sanctions until the reasons for the sanctions are removed. We aren't going to turn around and say, yes its okay to attack Ukraine for its people wanting an accountable government.

"special status" for Donbas doesn't have to be a problem unless that status includes having a veto over Ukrainian state affairs. No, you can't give a Russian controlled region the power to block Ukraine from joining the EU. BTW I see Macedonia just succeeded again in this regard. No doubt who Russia supported in their election last week.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2019, 05:53 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,437,689 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
No, this is Ukraine vs. Russia. Russia says they are fighting the US to their own people for obvious reasons:

The Donbas army's inability to gain any ground since Feb of 2015.

To give their own soldiers/civilians the morale boosting that they are taking losses fighting a great enemy.

Yes we have 100 or so trainers in Lviv teaching them the basics.

Now, if you saw a full fledged Russian invasion, then the US would certainly get involved. I don't want to speculate on such a thing though because Putin doesn't dare now.
First off and the most important thing here is Russia DOES NOT WANT CONFLICT. War destroys infrastructure, people and hard earned gains in this case. Money is better spent on BRIDGES and other things that people will benefit from in the long run. That includes a good defense too. All these things make people feel better about themselves and their country, it gives them stability and they can build their lives, have families, buy houses and other material things. The lives of citizens improve when war is absent from the picture and therefore must be avoided.

Unlike America and their lackeys who want war and strife so long as it's inflicted on other people.

The LNR/DNR armed forces had NO intention to go further than what they did. They were aware of the situation back in the spring of 2015 and late 2014. Many of the troops wanted to go further but their commanders were samrt and knew that because they did not have the manpower they could not advance further. If they had they would have over extended themselves and lost all their advantages. The Ukrop thugs got their acces beat because the rebels FOUGHT correctly and with exteremely well thought out battle plans. Unlike your drunken mob of Nazi wannabees.

It's not the big armies that win wars. It's the good ones. Get it?

I highly doubt the US would get involved if Russia invaded. Say Russia were to go to the Dneipre river. There would probably be NATO troops on the other side (as there were in the fighting) in short order in small numbers. America can't afford another conflict and we sure as hell can't afford a conflict with Russia, nor can Germany and no one wants it. Make no mistake that if Russia wanted Kiev THEY WOULD HAVE IT.

There's more than 100 or so personnel in Ukraine. There's agents and agents provocateurs crawling all over the place not to mention bases being built.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top