Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-15-2019, 08:11 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
DKM, dear...


The reason Ukrainian Rada is refusing to inaugurate Zelensky ( or rather procrastinates as long as possible,) is because the current *team* ( which consists for the most part of people supporting Poroshenko and his regime - ( to make the long story short,) is up for re-election almost in 6 month. If Zelensky is inaugurated earlier than June, he will be ( according to Ukrainian Constitution) to disband this current Parliament, but after end of May/early June, when there will be less than six month till the re-election of the Rada deputies, the Constitution prohibits him to disband them.

And that means Poroshenko has his chance to remain in charge of the working parliament (HIS parliament, since his party (Pyotr Poroshenko Block) plays there big role. Under this case scenario Ze will remain a puppet that won't be able to do ANYTHING, since he has no party of his own there.
Yes I know all that, my point was it's not a big deal. Its politics. That's the reason why in the constitution the Rada is given until June 3 to inaugurate the president. This way they control if the president can call early elections. This is about as riveting as what happens in Belgium, not a crisis that you make it sound to be. I get it, political machinations sound horrible to Russians used to their "great leader" system. Legislatures are supposed to vie for power and even clash with the executive. Its how political systems function. The MP's are up for elections in 6 months. If they want to defy a president who just got 75% of the vote, then they will face consequences. Again, I understand how horrible this all sounds to a Russian but to your average reader on here, its how things work in normal countries.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-15-2019, 09:48 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,526,584 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
It's nothing?

TASS: World - Poroshenko signs law on Ukrainian as the only state language

I see the signs of hatred and disgust in Ukrainian society. I think ukrainians are divided and the map which Erasure posted of the demos of the final voting shows me just who is the minority. Porkochunko and the Rada have no say on what language people speak. This bill is mean spirited, it's meant to divide, to intimidate. There's supposed to be fines against the violators of the law. WTF?

Oh yeah... The map. The one produced after the second round I assume, ( which shows how many people current government that's still clinging on to power represents,) but we need to keep in mind, that the ORIGINAL map ( after the first round) was much more complicated, and really the voices given to Zelensky in the second round - 40% of them were given not to Zelensky ( who originally had only 30% of voters,) but AGAINST Poroshenko, who still occupies the office, even when 75% of the country doesn't want to see either him or his parliament.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_U...%83%D1%80).svg


The reason I mentioned the original map, after the first round, is because it demonstrated that Ukraine is still very much divided in many ways, except for one important decision, that Poroshenko and his regime of hatred, war and division, must go. The only people that still support him ( as the map shows) are the nationalists in the Western part of the country, which was quite predictable. And so in order to thank his "voter base," this latest "language law" has been implemented.

Zelensky of course promised to look into this law ( how legal it is,) because.. well, because he became famous/made his money speaking Russian to his vast Russian audience in the South-East of the country. His movie "The servant of the people," that propelled him to stardom, was in Russian too by the way.
But Zelensky can promise whatever he likes at this point, however once he will get in the office ( if he finally will))) ) the map might change yet again. Quickly at that.



Quote:
Are shop owners who advertise in Russian now going to have to tear it all up and pay for new signage in Ukrainian? Are doctors supposed to throw out the medical texts written in Russian? Are professors in colleges supposed to throw out the text books?

1984.
And yes, this law was meant to gradually eradicate Russian language from the country, since the fines for the usage of the Russian language in public places would not be enforced earlier than in three years - this is the plan. People will still have three years to "adjust" - such generosity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2019, 10:13 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,526,584 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Yes I know all that, my point was it's not a big deal. Its politics. That's the reason why in the constitution the Rada is given until June 3 to inaugurate the president. This way they control if the president can call early elections. This is about as riveting as what happens in Belgium, not a crisis that you make it sound to be. I get it, political machinations sound horrible to Russians used to their "great leader" system. Legislatures are supposed to vie for power and even clash with the executive. Its how political systems function. The MP's are up for elections in 6 months. If they want to defy a president who just got 75% of the vote, then they will face consequences. Again, I understand how horrible this all sounds to a Russian but to your average reader on here, its how things work in normal countries.

Nice try to switch things to "Russia-Russia-Russia" again, but it's not about "Russia" but Ukraine, so...
Once the cat got out of a bag, how much this puppet government is controlled by Americans on each and every level, and how much Americans are firmly entrenched in ongoing corruption in Ukraine, the question remains who Mr. Ze really is, and what his policies/politics are going to be.
The thing that took me by surprise quite honestly, is that Ukraine with all its corruption seems to be the playground of specifically Dem. party of the US - it's their domain, and with that I wonder how this particular factor will affect situation further.
If Ukraine will lose the support of the US ( since Trump is not going anywhere any time soon, no matter what Dems scream now,) what Mr. Ze is going to do? Will he run to EU to ask for their help instead?
Will he be able to wrestle the power from Poroshenko people for real, and if yes, how will the "Poroshenko lite" version will work out for his cabinet ( and Ukraine overall)?

Will it work out at all? ( Because obviously as we've witnessed now, Ukraine is not a viable state that can stand on its own, without some other forces supporting it.)

And the last but not least - what role Igor Kolomoysky plays in Ukrainian politics for real ( if any) at this point.

Last edited by erasure; 05-15-2019 at 10:23 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2019, 12:51 AM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,526,584 times
Reputation: 10037
OK, I am trying to put two and two together, to figure out whether Giuliani ( when talking about "people who surround the new president) is talking about Leshenko, Zlochevsky, or mentioned above Kolomoysky,)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PALJAC72GA


since here, on Strana UA, she talks about that interview that Giuliani gave to a Ukrainian journalist in the US, (Anopchenko,) and Giuliani is pointing directly at Kolomoysky ( and his partner from Privatbank Bogolubov,) calling them problematic people in Zelensky's surrounding, the "corrupt oligarch," and "people who are under investigation in the US.")



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8rdAW0tylw&t=262s



So Kolomoysky is in Trump's crosshairs too?
That's interesting, to say the least.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2019, 09:51 AM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
Nice try to switch things to "US-Trump-Dems" again, but it's not about "US" but Ukraine, so...

Okay I'll play along. The fact is Trump doesn't care much about Russia or Ukraine. He cares about countries which have stronger economies and ways to get them to take more imports. I'm not so sure you are right about him not going anywhere. A Biden/Harris ticket (for example) would garner a lot of votes. So would a scenario where there are economic disruptions in 2020 (not impossible to imagine with his trade wars).

A clear majority of Ukrainians now back EU integration while support for closer ties with Russia has fallen to record lows. What does Russia offer Ukraine besides cheaper gas in exchange for subservience? What would Ukrainians gain from keeping the corrupt Rusian style system in place over moving to a transparent accountable EU style of government?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2019, 11:58 AM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,526,584 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Nice try to switch things to "US-Trump-Dems" again, but it's not about "US" but Ukraine, so...

Okay I'll play along. The fact is Trump doesn't care much about Russia or Ukraine. He cares about countries which have stronger economies and ways to get them to take more imports.
I'm not so sure you are right about him not going anywhere. A Biden/Harris ticket (for example) would garner a lot of votes. So would a scenario where there are economic disruptions in 2020 (not impossible to imagine with his trade wars).

Oh but he does.
If Trump "wouldn't care," why would he requested a meeting with Putin as soon as he has been cleared of accusations?

Of course Trump cares about Russia, as much as the Democrats care about Ukraine, since Ukraine ( or rather Ukraine being cut off from Russia) was a big part of Brzezinsky plan of weakening Russia.
Such is the game on the "world big chessboard," so enough of your silly pretenses.
And that's what turned Ukraine in American puppet state, ( run predominantly by the Democrats, as I've discovered lately.)
But being the puppet state has its own pluses, and after the leaders of the G7 *gently nudged* Poroshenko yesterday to pass the power to the newly elected president, ( in order to avoid further possible turmoils I suspect,) and Rada immediately voted for the inauguration day, May 20th.

So May 20th it is.


Quote:
A clear majority of Ukrainians now back EU integration while support for closer ties with Russia has fallen to record lows. What does Russia offer Ukraine besides cheaper gas in exchange for subservience? What would Ukrainians gain from keeping the corrupt Rusian style system in place over moving to a transparent accountable EU style of government?
By all means, I wish them luck.


P.S. I see Kolomoysky returned now to Dnepropetrovsk, ( where he used to sit as a governor of the region,) from Israel.
As he has promised, after the elections.
Things that make you go "hmmm..."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2019, 06:04 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
I'm glad to see you read Unian as it seems to be a good source of relevant news. Ukraine isn't part of a plan to weaken Russia, this was all just a plan to push Ukraine into a better trading partner. Ukraine weakens Putin (not Russia) because it shows Russians they don't have to live in fear of their government. They are the same people, but now with 2 very different paths.

Indeed, I'm as surprised as you they made May 20th. Not really sure what the G7 has to do with it. There is no behind story to everything, sometimes face value is all their is. They are encouraging the outgoing to hand things off to the incoming. This is still post-Soviet space so its not a bad reminder to give. They will encourage the same thing when Putin leaves in 2024. If he leaves...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2019, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,228,322 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Ukraine weakens Putin (not Russia) because it shows Russians they don't have to live in fear of their government.
They do it bad.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2019, 10:37 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,526,584 times
Reputation: 10037
Ukraine's latest news -

It looks like Kiev's court agreed to open a criminal case initiated by a journalist featured in previous videos A. Dubinsky, against the top 180 Ukrainian officials.

"Kyiv District Administrative Court opened a criminal proceeding on the request to ban 180 officials to leave Ukraine after the presidential and parliamentary elections, as the press office of the establishment reported. “The claimant asks the court to find the inactivity of the National Police on failure to impede crimes organized by the people who hold political posts and might have committed corruption crimes. Besides, the claimant asks to find inactivity of SBU (Security Service of Ukraine, - ed.) in terms of failing to perform all the measures to protect national security from organized criminality,” the message reads."

Poroshenko, Parubiy and Groysman are on the list.

https://112.international/ukraine-to...als-39805.html


As for the rest - this is a good read, (an article from Bloomberg,) recommended



P.S. Hi Maxim, long time no see..)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-19-2019, 04:46 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,435,134 times
Reputation: 9092
I wonder just what Porkochunko and his bunch have in store for Zelensky and his supporters. Will the streets be filled with roaming gangs of thugs again?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top