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Agreed. That's exactly what the west is trying to do with Russia. That and slow the growth of Russia across the board and weaken it any way they can. Ukrainians know better though as do Russians, they know how this works. Everybody does. I don't see the Russians cutting off the gas without very good reason though, Putin and his people are just not that stupid. I can however see the crazies in Kiev providing those very good reasons though. The population has been passive in Ukraine. I think they have found ways around the hardships placed in their paths but living without the basics is another thing.
I think the Ukies are going to see how far they can push next year.
OK, so I am watching this video from Russian "60 minutes" show ( devoted to "Ukrainian question,") and approximately from 34:52 the three ring circus begins. Literally.
First they demonstrate the Ukrainian advertisement, "how Zelensky is going to disband the current Rada," and there you hear his voice behind the screen "I disband the Rada of the 8th Convocation."
Funny, yes, and Moscow's spin doctors have tongue in a cheek, while proceeding with their show, but..they have plenty to chuckle at, because.. well.. yes, it looks like Ukrainians ARE clueless about what's going on in their own politics.
So when asked, what KIND of party that new Zelensky's Party is going to be, ("the Servant of People," named after the movie that propelled him to the stardom,) they show the spokesperson of that party, who explains that... (are you ready for that?) it's going to be a LIBERTARIAN party out of all things.
And then he ( the spokesperson that is) starts explaining the ideology of that party; "The basis of our party is Libertarianism. Liberal model of economy, liberal model of relations with corresponding national specifics. Our main goal is to break the established system, and to offer the new model of economy, where the state starts producing services of a different quality, launch the private initiative in all spheres where the court system protects these initiatives, where investors will come and receive the workers/job opportunities."
The Russians on another hand put the screen out, that explains what "Libertarianism" stands for "Libertarianism is the political philosophy that prohibits the aggression - i.e. the usage of force or threats towards other individual, his property against the will of that person. Libertarians strive for maximum freedom... are against military service, army..." and yada-yada-yada.
Then they show Zelensky discussing his attitude towards legalization of marijuana ( "why not?") and prostitution ( "why not, if allowed in certain places/cities, sort of like New Las Vegas, as much as there is a need for cazinos.")
Around 45:33 I see a Russian writer Zakhar Prilepin, who spends a lot of time in Donbass, and his eyes are literally bugging out when he is listening to all that. Then he is saying that "OK, this sounds like something radical, so called "liberalism" phase that our own country went through in the 90ies. I understand that Zelensky is trying to appeal to the people of his own circle - *progressive and hip," but really, that's not what your normal, regular Ukrainian person is. I don't think Ukrainians understand what they are getting into."
Then next comes someone named D. Abzalov ( have no idea who he is, ) and all Russians are giving each other a *look,* since they all have to be careful to not to give out too much political information/clarifications to THEIR OWN audience in the process, ( they have to be careful about that.) And so this D. Abzalov is addressing the Ukrainian team in the studio, saying basically that "if people on Zelensky's team are confusing liberalism with libertarianism, they need to get out of there. Do you understand that "libertarianism is closer to the ideology of Republicans, that it implies the total absence of social security net. Pensions? There is no such word; social security? Forget about it. Now call the referendum in Ukraine, and ask Ukrainians, do they want to lose their pensions on top of everything, since one of Zelensky's rep confused the political terminology a bit?"
So yeah...
Ukrainians are clueless yet again, and it looks like they are heading towards yet another disaster.
OK, so I am watching this video from Russian "60 minutes" show ( devoted to "Ukrainian question,") and approximately from 34:52 the three ring circus begins. Literally.
First they demonstrate the Ukrainian advertisement, "how Zelensky is going to disband the current Rada," and there you hear his voice behind the screen "I disband the Rada of the 8th Convocation."
Funny, yes, and Moscow's spin doctors have tongue in a cheek, while proceeding with their show, but..they have plenty to chuckle at, because.. well.. yes, it looks like Ukrainians ARE clueless about what's going on in their own politics.
So when asked, what KIND of party that new Zelensky's Party is going to be, ("the Servant of People," named after the movie that propelled him to the stardom,) they show the spokesperson of that party, who explains that... (are you ready for that?) it's going to be a LIBERTARIAN party out of all things.
And then he ( the spokesperson that is) starts explaining the ideology of that party; "The basis of our party is Libertarianism. Liberal model of economy, liberal model of relations with corresponding national specifics. Our main goal is to break the established system, and to offer the new model of economy, where the state starts producing services of a different quality, launch the private initiative in all spheres where the court system protects these initiatives, where investors will come and receive the workers/job opportunities."
The Russians on another hand put the screen out, that explains what "Libertarianism" stands for "Libertarianism is the political philosophy that prohibits the aggression - i.e. the usage of force or threats towards other individual, his property against the will of that person. Libertarians strive for maximum freedom... are against military service, army..." and yada-yada-yada.
Then they show Zelensky discussing his attitude towards legalization of marijuana ( "why not?") and prostitution ( "why not, if allowed in certain places/cities, sort of like New Las Vegas, as much as there is a need for cazinos.")
Around 45:33 I see a Russian writer Zakhar Prilepin, who spends a lot of time in Donbass, and his eyes are literally bugging out when he is listening to all that. Then he is saying that "OK, this sounds like something radical, so called "liberalism" phase that our own country went through in the 90ies. I understand that Zelensky is trying to appeal to the people of his own circle - *progressive and hip," but really, that's not what your normal, regular Ukrainian person is. I don't think Ukrainians understand what they are getting into."
Then next comes someone named D. Abzalov ( have no idea who he is, ) and all Russians are giving each other a *look,* since they all have to be careful to not to give out too much political information/clarifications to THEIR OWN audience in the process, ( they have to be careful about that.) And so this D. Abzalov is addressing the Ukrainian team in the studio, saying basically that "if people on Zelensky's team are confusing liberalism with libertarianism, they need to get out of there. Do you understand that "libertarianism is closer to the ideology of Republicans, that it implies the total absence of social security net. Pensions? There is no such word; social security? Forget about it. Now call the referendum in Ukraine, and ask Ukrainians, do they want to lose their pensions on top of everything, since one of Zelensky's rep confused the political terminology a bit?"
So yeah...
Ukrainians are clueless yet again, and it looks like they are heading towards yet another disaster.
When the West is imposing sanctions on Russia, what is it trying to achieve exactly?
I would guess the worsening economic situation for the Russian people, so that they would vote (the inconvenient for the West) government out of the office?
The sanctions are very clearly targeted not at the Russian people but at the oligarchs and the Russian federal budget itself. Why would we target the people who don't have any say in how the country is run? There is no alternate government to vote into office over there... The worsening economic situation is due to how the country is run.
Yep, I would agree that what Ze stands for is radically different than what Putinism stands for. Its shocking, these Western ideas showing up in Kiev politics! I guess we will see how much the country has changed when the Rada elections occur. The stuff between now and then is just talk. I don't blame Russians for being fascinated by it...
The sanctions are very clearly targeted not at the Russian people but at the oligarchs
How, why, and with what purpose?
I've read in certain American articles that this should send a message to Russian oligarchs that their financial interests are going to be hurt, so in order to protect them, they need to unseat Putin.
But people who might adhere to this way of thinking are clearly lost in time, since what could be true back in the nineties, is not true in Putin's Russia, since Putin put a stop to any flirting of oligarchs with political power. Those who dared to argue were severely dealt with, (Khodorkovsky eniding in jail is a good example, or Berezovsky and Gusinsky who went to London to exile.) They were the West's darlings, but those hopes were dashed to pieces, since the rest of oligarchs have no political power whatsoever, they back Putin up, and their wealth only keeps on growing.
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The sanctions are very clearly targeted not at the Russian people but the Russian federal budget itself.
What now?
And where do you think the salaries for doctors/nurses/teachers/other state workers/ pensions are coming from, if not from the "Russian Federal budget?" And where do you think the construction of schools/hospitals/other infrastructure is coming from, if not from the " Russian Federal budget?" From American Federal budget, or what?
So of course it's the Russian people that end up being hurt with these sanctions, having their health care services/salaries/pensions cut, not the upper class and not the military budget.
Precisely as the good Russian joke goes - "Daddy, daddy, they've cut your salary, so now you will be drinking less vodka.
- No, son, it's you who are going to eat less."
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Why would we target the people who don't have any say in how the country is run?
And what other options American politicians have, when dealing with "insurgent Russia?"
They HAVE to come up with something, with some kind of plan, as hopeless as it is.
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There is no alternate government to vote into office over there...
Why, Navalny is still there, he is still doing his job, it's just that Russians don't want anything to do with him or any opposition that has any slightest ties to the US ( the lesson learned back in the 90ies,) not to mention that Putin shrewdly played on this particular sentiment of the Russian people.
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The worsening economic situation is due to how the country is run.
That's what you say, but that's not how the Russians see it.
They clearly connect their worsening living conditions with the Western sanctions, ( and they are right about that,) it's just that this realization does not necessarily create the effect desired by the West.
Yep, I would agree that what Ze stands for is radically different than what Putinism stands for. Its shocking, these Western ideas showing up in Kiev politics!
*Sigh*
You still don't get it DKM, that "Putinism" is very Western in its essence, it's very American to be precise, and by "American" I mean "Republican," and by "Republican" I mean the likes of Scott Walker and Koch Brothers. This is the kind of paradise of the "fiscally tight" budget, that this kind of people would love to run, where everyone/everything that doesn't *fit* into this budget, must simply die.
But the military budget should be served ( since it protects the sitting government) and the wealth of the people on top should keep on growing exponentially, since it assures their power domestically and internationally alike.
And then Scrat wonders why the small Russian cities with its unique history/architecture are dying off.
In essence, it's the very heart of Russia and Russian culture are dying off, (because that's what Russia originally was all about.) But for "fiscally tight budget" this is non-essential, as it's non-essential for any production line of a state, set on "making money" first and utmost.
So this is what American ideas implemented in Russia back in the nineties do to that country in the long run. It destroys it slowly but surely, configuring into something new and not necessarily better; in fact I'd say that this new mutant is actually much more dangerous and worse overall.
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I guess we will see how much the country has changed when the Rada elections occur. The stuff between now and then is just talk. I don't blame Russians for being fascinated by it...
Russians are not "fascinated" - they are literally chuckling at Ukrainians in that program ( just in case you've missed it.)
I didn't expect Zelensky to be such dufus in politics to be honest.
I mean he is still a lovely guy, a very good actor, an intelligent guy, and yet...
The road to hell is paved with best intentions.
P.S. The "talking heads" in Ukraine are talking about the possibility of default more and more often lately I've noticed.
Ze is restoring many people who were chased out of Ukraine by the prior government for committing such acts as calling out corruption. This isn't really that amazing to people who follow what the country is doing.
I've read in certain American articles that this should send a message to Russian oligarchs that their financial interests are going to be hurt, so in order to protect them, they need to unseat Putin.
...
Its not that hard to find who they targeted and the reasons why were made public about 100 items in the past 4-5 years. The oligarchs have been made to pay the most for Putin's lashing out over Ukraine's Euro-Atlantic course. They are the ones who support his power so they can pay for it (asset freezes, travel bans, business deals blocked, this is a big deal to them). Nobody said they will unseat Putin, I don't see why that is the reason given by anyone but Russian media. Change of behavior doesn't mean need to change leader.
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Originally Posted by erasure
And where do you think the salaries for doctors/nurses/teachers/other state workers/ pensions are coming from, if not from the "Russian Federal budget?" And where do you think the construction of schools/hospitals/other infrastructure is coming from, if not from the " Russian Federal budget?" From American Federal budget, or what?
So of course it's the Russian people that end up being hurt with these sanctions, having their health care services/salaries/pensions cut, not the upper class and not the military budget.
I didn't say it wouldn't hurt the government workers as well, I'm just saying they weren't the target. Well actually they are if you include Russia's freezing out of western capital markets (i forgot about that in initial post). Everyone who benefits from the state (pension, services, employment) will be hurt by sanctions I agree. Especially if the Russian budget continues to contract in a time of rising prices...
Putin is making Ukraine pay a price for choosing a western way over subservience to him, so of course the west is going to make his country pay for punishing Ukraine. Russia will not attack Ukraine without consequences. Its really easy to stop all this,implement Minsk, give control of the border to the UN, etc.
The election clearly shows his strategy isn't working. Eastern Ukraine just voted for a guy who wants Ukraine to be more European. Things are already way different than they were 5 years ago. A lot of changes need to occur but they are happening. Take gas for example. Halliburton just signed a contract to help increase gas production. In 2018 Ukraine has increased gas production to 21 bcm. If they get to 27, they produce as much as they need for use. Fracking in Kharkov could achieve this on its own in just a couple years.
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