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The reality is that Ukraine cannot stop shelling and withdraw troops from the border to comply with the Minsk's agreement.
No, they are complying but only when the Russian forces stop firing at them. It's already been confirmed by the OSCE that the Russian side isn't letting up the firing.
The reality is Russia needs a guarantee in place to comply with the Minsk agreements, otherwise Ukraine will change the agreement after taking control of the border. So, only an international peacekeeping force can make this happen. But with the Russian forces still firing to prevent a withdrawal, it tells me they were just imitating compliance for some other aim.
As I've already said before- your "personal experience" and people "you know" are a bad source of information, since it's rather skewed.
I on another hand get my information from people I DON'T know. I read the news, watch youtube and take note what kind of comments get the biggest number of likes, whose youtube channels are increasing the amount of subscribers, how much and so on.
2 "formerly hostile" parts of the country were not all that hostile in the past by the way - they were rather indifferent to each other and lived their separate lives. The real hostility came after 2014.
Its not skewed, as these aren't just some random people I know, its part of my family and many more friends all of which fit the profile of who you believe who should be pro Russian South Easterners. Mixed Ethnic Russian, Russian speaking and who were hostile to western Ukrainians. I know it as I lived it too. A lot of them were hostile to Americans too. Backwoods "Bandery" with their silly language that I still don't understand, and who sided with the wrong side in World War 2 were viewed with hostility all my life up until the events AFTER the revolution. They were worthy of scorn while association with Russia was viewed with pride. We always supported Russia at the Olympics, and dismissed the Ukrainian Olympians as 2nd rate.
This all changed with Russian tanks appearing to stop our side from reclaiming control of Donetsk. And Russian TV channels pumping out nonstop lies to get people to fight each other. You still don't get it. You don't understand the modern South East Russian speaking Ukrainian because your side cannot admit they already lost the battle for hearts and minds. They weren't switching sides as much as you wished. They were killing idiots in the east brainwashed into believing they were fighting fascists. That's why the Russian inspired insurrection failed in areas without direct Russian military intervention. Russia should have stayed out of Ukraine's problems instead of creating more of them...
No, they are complying but only when the Russian forces stop firing at them. It's already been confirmed by the OSCE that the Russian side isn't letting up the firing.
The reality is Russia needs a guarantee in place to comply with the Minsk agreements, otherwise Ukraine will change the agreement after taking control of the border. So, only an international peacekeeping force can make this happen. But with the Russian forces still firing to prevent a withdrawal, it tells me they were just imitating compliance for some other aim.
The OSCE also recorded shelling by Ukraine (including with the death of civilian population of the DPR). But the Ukrainian government cannot even stop volunteers with weapons who shout “No surrender” and are going to interfere with the truce.
No, they are complying but only when the Russian forces stop firing at them. It's already been confirmed by the OSCE that the Russian side isn't letting up the firing.
Your source? That video was confirmation enough for me to know who stopped shooting that day.
The OSCE also recorded shelling by Ukraine (including with the death of civilian population of the DPR). But the Ukrainian government cannot even stop volunteers with weapons who shout “No surrender” and are going to interfere with the truce.
Exactly. As long as these f heads are in the area the shooting will never stop. The Ukrainian government cannot control them.
I think Russia just needs to invade, all they understand is a stick upside the skull.
Exactly. As long as these f heads are in the area the shooting will never stop. The Ukrainian government cannot control them.
I think Russia just needs to invade, all they understand is a stick upside the skull.
I read that there is another huge problem. Traffic control between Ukraine and rebels is an extremely profitable business. And both sides do not want to destroy it. Ukraine cannot control this. It seems that only international peacekeepers or an invasion of Russia can establish peace there.
Last edited by Maksim_Frolov; 10-19-2019 at 03:25 PM..
In addition to the other falsehoods you are spewing on here about Ukraine, the biggest mistake is conflating the national guard with the army. They are totally separate because the national guard are run by the internal ministry. The internal ministry is not the general staff of the armed forces of Ukraine (who maintain the front line). The national guard replaced the internal troops, but many of them are the same guys in new uniforms.
You are also confused who the national guard is made up of which does not include the volunteer battalions. The volunteer battalions were all demobilized 3 to 4 years ago, with the exception of Azov (mostly guys from Donetsk region) reforming into a regiment. The Donbas battalion, led and formed by men from Crimea and the Donbas region are currently in reserve status.
They are demonized by Russian propaganda since they are the guys who were supposed to be fighting against Ukraine and not for them (being from the south east and all)...especially the guys from Crimea.
Reality is more important than conspiracy theories.
Oh my ass DKM. The National Guard IS the Ukrainian Army. They've set up the whole military just like the Prussians did for centuries. A very small core of active, RELIABLE and fanatical individuals that know who pays them so well and enjoy a special status. It's been used by militaries all over the world throughout history.
They rotate them in and out of the "front" in groups and the majority are in the rear for most of the time with only about 5 to 7 thousand actually on or near the FEBA. The rest are home, at bases for training or doing side work, intimidating locals, doing chores by offing people and generally sowing terror among the populace.
The Ukrainian Army (the real army) is barely functioning because they get next to no funding and are secondary in all things to these militias.
Oh but the National Guard DOES include the volunteer battalions. Look closely -
"In September 2014, the Azov battalion was expanded from a battalion to a regiment and enrolled into the National Guard of Ukraine.[25][35] At about this time it started receiving increased supplies of heavy arms.[35] The Azov battalion received funding from the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine and other sources (believed to be Ukrainian oligarchs).[35] So whilst its volunteers were officially paid 6,000 hryvnia ($316) per month, they really received around 10,000 hryvnia ($526) per month."
And that's what I was trying to explain to you earlier, that the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine (with A. Avakov in charge) has direct ties to all kinds of Nazi units/organizations that rule the streets of Ukraine. And that's why known killers that belong to these organizations walk away scot-free from any "trials."
And that's why there was such an outcry in the country, when Zelensky re-appointed Avakov in the same position, claiming that it was on "his own responsibility."
There are also Oligarchs which have significant influence in the existence of these battalions. They make very good money, 500 to 600 euro a month. They'll do the bidding of those who pay them best. That's also why the government of Ukraine is worthless. Those in Kiev rule no further than they can see out the window. Warlords have the real power and some of them are in the RADA.
Read about Iraq and how that went down. What the US ended up was a bunch of battling warlords who saw US soldiers as good targets too. It'll also tell you how the people in the DNR got their weapons and gear for the most part. In Iraq the US soldiers all went off to protect the oil fields. The Iraqis went to the local armories and emptied them. In the Ukraine the thugs dispatched to "pacify" the locals tried taking over the government offices while the locals looted the armories.
Its not skewed, as these aren't just some random people I know, its part of my family and many more friends all of which fit the profile of who you believe who should be pro Russian South Easterners. Mixed Ethnic Russian, Russian speaking and who were hostile to western Ukrainians. I know it as I lived it too. A lot of them were hostile to Americans too. Backwoods "Bandery" with their silly language that I still don't understand, and who sided with the wrong side in World War 2 were viewed with hostility all my life up until the events AFTER the revolution. They were worthy of scorn while association with Russia was viewed with pride. We always supported Russia at the Olympics, and dismissed the Ukrainian Olympians as 2nd rate.
This all changed with Russian tanks appearing to stop our side from reclaiming control of Donetsk. And Russian TV channels pumping out nonstop lies to get people to fight each other. You still don't get it. You don't understand the modern South East Russian speaking Ukrainian because your side cannot admit they already lost the battle for hearts and minds. They weren't switching sides as much as you wished. They were killing idiots in the east brainwashed into believing they were fighting fascists.
Your friends ( and apparently family members) are so messed up in their thinking, that I don't even know where to start.
Let's start right here;
Are your *random people* even aware of the recent incident, where the new so-called Prime Minister of Ukraine A. Goncharuk showed up at the concert of the openly Nazi band to thank them for a "great show, " as much as to thank the "ATO veterans" who attended this concert for their "great service to the country"? Are YOU aware of that?
If you still don't understand what this is all about, let me quote here SOME of the lyrics of the songs that "Perun's Sokira" happen to play;
"6 million words of lies
Zionist lies, lies without any proof turned you into sheep, a toy in Jewish hands.
They kept on saying how they suffered in the hands of Aryan warriors.
National Socialism should be forgotten forever.
But this is not going to happen as long as we are still alive.
6 million words of lies, that Jews made up about the Hollocaust and Ziklon B."
That's just one of their songs ( the rest are pretty much in the same key - about the white supremacy,
"Aryan brotherhood of the white Europeans" and yada-yada-yada.
This is the prime-minister of Ukraine making his speech after the concert; (you don't think I am making this up, do you?)
Now in any normal country THIS would have been already a scandal, but not in Ukraine, where "we have freedom of art." (Or something like that, according to some member of the parliament, that gives explanations to those who care to question this incident.)
That's it.
There are bloggers like Sharij ( and others from the South East,) that sound the alarm and send letters to EU, (German Bundestag including apparently,) to take care of the idiots.
But Sharij of course is accused of being "pro-Russian" and *anti-Ukrainian,* who is "paid by Kremlin."
Why? Because he is critical of the "great Ukrainian post-Maidan state."
These are *OUR HEROES* you see, who "fought the pro-Russian separatists," so how dare you to criticize any of them.
This is what pretty much post-Maidan "Ukrainian state" is founded on. If your "random people" ( friends, family members) can't comprehend it, since they are not perceptive enough, and like to imagine something different, is none of my problem.
That's why the Russian inspired insurrection failed in areas without direct Russian military intervention.
This was not "Russian-inspired insurrection" as you are trying to convince everyone.
It was the insurrection of the South-Easterners, that didn't want to live in the Nationalist state.
For Zakhar, Givi, Mozgovoy ( and many-many others) it was not a matter of "joining Russia," but a matter of fighting the openly nationalistic new Ukrainian state, that came after Maidan.
They simply HAD to rely on Russia's help, since the new Ukrainian Nationalist state was relying on American support. But that was the stand of the "blue collar," very left-leaning Donbass.
And then of course there is a "white collar" approach among the South-Easterners as well, where some of its leaders/thinkers already understood by now that no matter what the ORIGINAL thoughts of Maidan participants were, the practice showed that Ukraine has been used by Americans for their own purpose, that it didn't bring anything good for the country ( or its inhabitants.)
And it's not about any particular "love for Russia" ( or Putin for this matter,) but a rational, adult thinking about what's good for Ukraine realistically speaking, when it comes to economy and politics. And yes - it includes stable and close ties with Russia. It's simply unavoidable, whether one likes it or not.
If your *random people* don't understand all these simple things that I laid out in this post, and imagine something different in their minds - I can't help it, sorry.
Quote:
Russia should have stayed out of Ukraine's problems instead of creating more of them...
If America wouldn't have got involved directly in Ukrainian affairs, Russia would have stayed out of it too.
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