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Old 10-23-2019, 12:03 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec Solano View Post
I have long liked this choir. Now I’ll definitely go to their concert on December 1 for 300 UAH/1 ticket.
Gontareva is one of the most odious and hated people in Ukraine. No wonder people like that her house burned out.

I am well-aware of it Alec.
But DKM is trying to convince me here that she is the one who "saved Ukraine from banking collapse," ( working on IMF's orders) and if I ( or you) think otherwise, it's all "Kremlin's propaganda."

A lot of political observers insist that this particular satire was "Kolomoysky's idea."
You know, I am not even sure of that.

Even though it plays well in his hands, this general sentiment of hatred towards her ( and people like her) is something that "Kvartal 95" picked up independently. Even if by now it ricocheted Zelensky himself.



In other news; I do understand better by now why the West is so weary of Kolomoysky.
The whole "Servant of the People" party consists of few different fractions; looks like three at least.

People that are close to Ze personally ( i.e. his "Kvartal 95" team,) then Kolomoysky's people and IMF/Soros people. So the West is afraid that Kolomoysky's influence can outweigh their henchmen in the parliament.



So I keep on watching Dubinsky here who delivers pretty good information on what's going on in Rada, and what laws they are trying to pull though ( and how,) and this is his latest "зашквар"
He totally rocks, when after exposing yet another attempt to build the grey schemes that would put the money in some officials pockets, certain reps run straight to Ze's office complaining that Dubinsky's team was "bribed by someone" to offer a different law. They wanted his team to pass the lie detector.
To which Dubinsky responded "with pleasure, only on one condition: we ALL have to pass the lie detector, Ze's office including."

So this is now the "lie detector challenge" presented by Dubinsky in Ukrainian parliament.

It's more and more obvious that the internal trouble is brewing there.

I might disagree with Dubinsky on his stand on nationalists, but otherwise he is doing an excellent job as a person elected by people who trusted him the authority.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn0HacBC3xA&t=130s




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ayV0S-Ld8


Although some accuse him of being strictly "Kolomoysky's man," being on financial committee he is still doing an excellent job under the circumstances, as much as he can.

Up to the point that I start worrying for him, if you know what I mean.
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:16 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You know who else learn English as part of "educated class"?
Yesterdays' colonies of Great Britain, today's third world countries.
I would think that someone like Iraqis are "learning English" now in order to survive around American military bases. ( getting jobs, working as interpreters and what's not.)
So while in your imagination Ukraine is becoming a "European nation," guess where it's really sliding to.

P.S. I am watching now Russian "60 minutes" where they are saying that American government is waking up now to the fact that Azov and the likes of it -( i.e. the official part of the Ukrainian Interior Ministry troops and backbone of the 2014 coup d'etat) is the terrorist organization.

The mad dog outlived its usefulness and getting out of control may be?

Sort of like radical Islamists?


Here they are showing people that went through the torture by Azov in Donbass ( needles under the fingernails, waterboarding and the rest of "pleasantries" you know. ) And these are the people who lived to tell. Those who were beaten to death is a whole different story - and those were the people who were not even part of the rebel troops - just the regular inhabitants of the "damned" area.

I can only shudder, thinking about the DNR soldiers who got into Azov hands.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYPB_nyhMTY


This is the cross-reference from what I see.


https://thehill.com/policy/national-...esignate-white

A short update on situation, coming from Russian "60 minutes";


Today the Ukrainian Nationalists are gathering closer and closer to the President's office, since today is the deadline they gave president with their ultimatum "to put into law the prohibition of "capitulation of the state interests" ( i.e. the acceptance to put an end to war in Donbass on Russian ( German/French) conditions.)
If Moscow will not agree to Ukrainian conditions, the "Plan B" has been recently voiced; the "separatist areas" will receive 60 days for civilians willing to leave, to cross to Ukrainian-controlled territories, after which the uncontrolled territories will be cordoned off with the high wall and other fortifications by Ukraine.
Zelensky fulfilled each and every demand of the Nationalists so far. More than that,

Zelensky's government issued (?) a letter to the US officials, where they reject their call to put "Azov" on the terrorist organizations" list, praising it as " true heroes of Ukraine" and their actions as "heroic." They remind that "Azov" has been created by the activists and participants of the 2014 "Revolution of Dignity."
At that, current Minister of Internal affairs A. Avakov( kept n the same position from previous cabinet)

claims personally that "Azov is not some "Nazi organization," but part of the regular troops of his Ministry.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpcSfFsq2-g



Here is more from Bellingcat on "Azov" battalion:

Last edited by erasure; 10-25-2019 at 08:18 PM..
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:17 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
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That explains how Russia was going to present Ze's reluctance to give into Russia's demands. Paint him as hostage to nationalists. At least they aren't blaming the USA anymore.
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:37 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
That explains how Russia was going to present Ze's reluctance to give into Russia's demands. Paint him as hostage to nationalists. At least they aren't blaming the USA anymore.

He IS a hostage to the Nationalists.

This much is clear by now.



P.S. This doesn't remove any guilt from the US ( Obama administration mostly I suppose) that backed up the coup d'etat in Kiev, whose back-bone were the Nationalists.

It's just the fact that has been carefully hushed before, is becoming more and more obvious.






Meanwhile - the shooting in Kharkov today with lethal consequences,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eujGa2E2WWE


Grenade explosion in Kiev couple of days ago ( lethal)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym0ZNUysf2w



and today yet another one ( non-lethal)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WAji9Vbb54





The weapons are pouring in from the war area, uncontrollably so it seems, with the "veterans coming back home" from so-called "anti-terrorist operation."

Last edited by erasure; 10-25-2019 at 08:27 PM..
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:03 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,302,106 times
Reputation: 1692
If Ukraine keeps stalling the peace process, Russia should this time intervene for good and declare a totally demilitarized 50 KM buffer zone from the two republics Ukraine borders....any Ukrainian military forces caught in this buffer will be annihilated....time to stop playing games....force the Ukrainian government to the negotiating table.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:08 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,302,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I'm not worried about Azov battalion, they're mercenaries and if they ever went up against the Russian armed forces they would not last long. The only option they would have (if they did not simply disappear into the dark when the first rumor is whispered) is to retreat. I'm not going to go into why, your understanding of modern mechanized warfare is non existent.

I agree....I bet they would be utterly obliterated if facing a seriously capable military like the Russian Army...
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Old 10-26-2019, 02:39 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
I agree....I bet they would be utterly obliterated if facing a seriously capable military like the Russian Army...
I read about the battle tactics of the USSRs Warsaw Pact forces. Some of the stuff was pretty amazing. Entire army groups moving over the landscape covering fronts 10s of miles wide and deep with complete air attack capability, complete air cover/anti air that moved with this mass in a coordinated fashion, they were watched doing this over the borders of E/W Germany and in other areas. You can find some amazing stuff in the Leavenworth Library collection. A lot of people who know about this stuff are very sure that if The USSR had wanted Western Germany they would have taken it and dominated the rest of Europe.

There's many aspects to todays Russian army different from the USSRs but I don't think they're any less now when it comes to capability. On 08/08/08 (Russians Georgian conflict) I followed the conflict from the start. I went to bed the first day knowing who would win but thinking it would take the Russians 3 weeks to clear things up. When I woke up the Georgians were on the run and a few hours later the Georgian Army had ceased to function as a fighting force and the Russian army didn't even break a sweat doing it.

I'm thinking now if Putin wanted it to be The Russian army would be in Kiev in 3 weeks (with Ukrainian units) and points beyond. What they would have to deal with is the resulting chaos as a lot of these militia units go full partisan. It would take some time to hunt them down and it may get brutal but since the Ukrainians would be willing participants it wouldn't be that hard.

A short video. It's the details that count too, look closely.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQQC...w&index=7&t=0s
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Old 10-26-2019, 02:45 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
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Quote:
He IS a hostage to the Nationalists.

This much is clear by now.
And the Oligarchs?

A lot of information in this. Good points too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u45EYyANL_M&t=1364s


I really think that Putin and his people have other goals in mind and aren't going to take any drastic measures. I think they don't want the resulting burden or the liability (you break it, you pay for it) for correcting the situation UNLESS it really gets out of hand.
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Old 10-26-2019, 07:00 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
And the Oligarchs?

A lot of information in this. Good points too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u45EYyANL_M&t=1364s


I really think that Putin and his people have other goals in mind and aren't going to take any drastic measures. I think they don't want the resulting burden or the liability (you break it, you pay for it) for correcting the situation UNLESS it really gets out of hand.

Well...

If I were to give a feedback on this video, the first thing where I'd like to correct Mercouris, is that when Yeltsin disbanded the parliament ( or rather downright shelled it,) and changed the constitution, he didn't do it "leaning on the oligarchs' powers." He did all that leaning on Clinton's government. Russian oligarchy at that point in time was not all that politically-savvy ( except for may be couple of them, one of which is credited with introducing Putin to Yeltsin in the first place.)
So when Putin "dealt swiftly with oligarchs" ( according to Mercouris,) in reality he dealt "swiftly" only with two-three of them, that were of independent thinking and wanted to promote their own politics.

But not all oligarchs are "politically-inclined people," - some of them are all about money, and want politicians to take the drivers seat, as long as these politicians promote the kind of policies that they find agreeable/convenient. So as much as Berezovsky ( or Khodorkovsky) were at odds with Putin, I can see where for example Deripaska or Usmanov ( and many others I am sure,) were finding a convenient political leader in Putin.

Keeping this in mind, the picture is no different in Ukraine; the "oligarchs" there are not some unanimous group of people, representing the same interests, but rather different people representing different interests, where some are willing to participate directly in politics ( like Poroshenko and Kolomoysky,) while other prefer to stay out of public eye and team up with other forces out there.
I don't have much info on where each and every one of them stand, but for example someone like Pinchuk
is often mentioned in connection with Soros people. Kolomoysky IS a political player himself - he used to be the governor of one of the Eastern regions, and is not shy being in public eye. ( Not to mention that the majority of people tie him directly to Zelensky, as much as they both would like to deny it - at least initially so.) I am not sure as well what/who else is behind Kolomoysky's power, taking in consideration his Jewish citizenship and his prolonged stay in Israel.
But back to the Nationalists, who DO keep Ze hostage, up to a point that he HAD to go to the front lines and to negotiate with them personally, since things are getting out of hands, with the latest call coming from the US government to put "Azov" on the terrorist organizations list.

This is almost reminiscent of "Cosa Nostra" style of negotiations, ( or "man to man," whichever you prefer, looking at it.)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhx9Uv9eb-A
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Old 10-27-2019, 01:27 PM
 
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I wonder what the connection is between this guy Volodymyr S Boiko and Azov Battalion is. This guy is eyeball deep in Mariupol industry (Mariupols industry is a significant part of Ukraines industry) and Azov Battalion was/is responsible for that area. HQ in Urzuf, just up the coast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illich...and_Iron_Works

It's hard as hell to find any real stuff on this.
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