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Re: '5) Vladimir Putin is not Hitler and Russia is not Nazi Germany (or Stalin’s Soviet Union)'
If this is true then Ukraine is not 'Nazified'as well. Therefore Russia should pack up the ammo and personnel and go home and quit the destabilization of the country and come to the table and work for non-violent solutions.
But I think this is a fantasy for the time being. Russia's goal now is to continually push conflict to occupy everyone's mind on the continent. Gotta keep the Europeans busy busy busy...;-)...
Re: 'Quite telling about the quality of Ukrainian media overall'
Well there are kind of two themes there, eh?
No, just one in this case and I am talking about Ukrainian mass media.
When Ukrainian president is announcing ( publicly) that he considers the inhabitants of Donbass the "POWs that need to be liberated," he obviously lives in some kind of alternative reality. And so does Ukrainian media that follows his lead.
This video of Donetsk happened to be the most recent one, ( 1st of June, Children's day,) but it's no different from the rest of them.
1. The quality and veracity of 'news' presented to people all over the face of the earth. Very important!
Sorry, not sure what you are talking about here, Travric.
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2. And last but not least the probability and extent of 'Russian military personnel in Ukraine. Very important! Russia says nyet nyet nyet nyet. Maybe one day they'll be forced to say da da da??
No, they won't be forced to admit anything, unless Putin will decide to bring troops in for real.
I don't understand why are you demanding some kind of "public honesty" from Putin, when this kind of honesty is not something the US exactly can be proud of? ( Just an example) Or what's sauce for a goose is not sauce for a gander? As I've already said, Putin is learning every trick from American books, so why should he "admit" anything?
Besides, it's only logical that Russians are present in Donbass; after all it's the region that shares the common language and history with Russians, so they help their own. The question is, what AMERICAN soldiers are doing in Ukraine?
Re: '5) Vladimir Putin is not Hitler and Russia is not Nazi Germany (or Stalin’s Soviet Union)'
If this is true then Ukraine is not 'Nazified'as well.
OK, let's go over it one more time Travric, slowly.
Definition of "Nazi" Germany is derived from the word "NATIONALISM" ok? And Nazionalism means just that - an implied superiority of one nation over the other.
That's why Germans were exterminating Jews ( and Slavs, and whoever they deemed "unworthy")
However what you see in these horrible pictures - that's not Germans, that's Ukrainians ( Western Ukrainians from Galicia region to be precise.) (Minding you - that's Jews in this case, but that doesn't mean that some Ukrainians don't have the ideas of their eternal "superiority" over Russians as well. I assure you they do, because I see/read all kind of craziness on their part lately.)
This is the reason why they very much fit into the definition of being "Nazified," while Putin and Stalin do not. They simply don't/didn't have this kind of agenda. Stalin - because he was happy to have slaves of all kinds fulfilling his dream of super-duper industrialized Socialist state, and Putin - because of his corporate approach that money don't smell, and he'd be happy to make them off of anyone.
So yes, Ukrainians with their idiot Bandera Shukhevich et al are indeed nazified, Putin/Stalin were/are not.
is there any logic to this ?
Russia very much argues nationalistic, rassistic. The (original) official reason for the
"intervention" was that "Russian speakers" in Ukraine were somehow suppressed
(which however was not confirmed by UNO or such) and must be protected
from anarchistic West-tending Ukrainians.
AFAIR there was a law to somehow restrict Russian language but it was quickly canceled.
But that was the Russian "justification" for Crimea and support for Eastern Ukraine.
It reminds to Hitler and the Germans in Czech,Poland,Austria who had to be protected/liberated.
What are Americans doing in Ukraine ? They must. They have a treaty. The 1994
Budapest memorandum, which Russia broke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapes...ity_Assurances
And I think "nationalism" is not primarily why Hitler was killing Jews.
It's emotional,rassistic,historic. It's not supported by international law which does not
distinguish nations by ethnicity or language but by official borders and treaties.
And Nazionalism means just that - an implied superiority of one nation over
the other.
Ok then let's go with 'Putinisim'.....'Holy' married with pride married with mission married with 'Russianess'.The behavior in Crimea and Ukraine follows this. And this behavior can lead and perhaps will lead to European war. The stupidity of it amazes me.
Regarding veracity of news...'truth' in news right now is like a snowball through hell. The bs is flying high. We're gone from the days of perhaps 'objective' news and now the 'news' operates as mud-slinging and to fester in exaggerations and mendacity.
And all of this arguably because Russia is so paranoid of 'losing' in the 'great game between super-powers. She uses that paranoia like a warm, touchy feely lost blanket that kids hold onto for protection from things that go bump in the night. If countries can go under psychiatric examination the docs I'd think the docs would have a field day with Vlad's land. Curious is Vlad read the book 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'. But that's a Western thing...;-)...
is there any logic to this ?
Russia very much argues nationalistic, rassistic. The (original) official reason for the
"intervention" was that "Russian speakers" in Ukraine were somehow suppressed
(which however was not confirmed by UNO or such) and must be protected
from anarchistic West-tending Ukrainians. AFAIR there was a law to somehow restrict Russian language but it was quickly canceled.
Let's start from this one, because this should go to the top, the rest should follow.
So... why exactly one of the first laws ( if not the first one) issued by the "new democratic" government in Kiev was prohibition of Russian language as a state language? Why was it deprived of this status right away, why was it the priority for the new government, that it was so in a rush to push it through, when the country seemingly had gazillion of other problems - any idea? Hence here is your answer- because it was the long ongoing conflict in Ukrainian Rada, where the nationalists ( mostly from Western Ukraine) were demanding the enforceable Ukrainization of the country, and first of all - South-East and Crimea were targeted, because population there was deemed as "untrustworthy" of the idea of "the Great Independent Ukrainian state." Those Eastern parts still had too many cultural and economic ties with Russia; Crimea was outright pro-Russian.
You want to see what those debates regarding the status of Russian language ( and thus of ANYTHING Russian) in Rada (Ukrainian parliament) looked like?
Be my guest, that you'd get a better idea.
That took place in 2012 ( long before Maidan events,) in response to request to give Russian language a status of regional language in the majority of regions, and next one again in 2013. The occasion this time around - one of the deputies dared to present his speech in Russian in parliament, instead of Ukrainian; the reaction of Ukrainian nationalists didn't wait to follow.
So as you can see, the issue that you've barely mentioned in your post was indeed a very serious one; it explains right there why Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine had every reason to be worried when the nationalists came to power after Maidan. Because - observing their ( nationalists') reaction to the sound of Russian language alone, one can only wonder what else did they have up their sleeve for Russian speakers, and when you are trying to use a parallel, saying that "Hitler used the same excuse to protect Germans in Czechoslovakia, Poland" and what's not - now tell me, whether anything of this kind - the deep-sitting hatred towards Germans on GOVERNMENTAL level existed in Poland,\Chekhoslovakia back in those days? If yes, then we can talk about parallels. If not - we really can not.
Of course "UNO and such" will never acknowledge these things, ( things that you see with your own eyes in those videos,) which brings us to the next topic - i.e why this law prohibiting the official status of Russian language has been practically immediately repelled. The answer is, the curators of the "new democratic government" in Kiev - Americans, saw immediately how bad it looked this law, how down to the point it was - the nationalism, so they told their subordinates to remove it ASAP. It's all about "looks" you know, not necessarily the content.
I looked at this treaty and NOWHERE does it tell me that Americans "must be" in Ukraine. In fact, this is what memorandum says;
"The Budapest Memorandum was negotiated as a political agreement. It refers to assurances, not defined, but less than a military guarantee of intervention.[1][17] According to Stephen MacFarlane, a professor of international relations "It gives signatories justification if they take action, but it does not force anyone to act in Ukraine."[16] In the U.S. neither the George H. W. Bush administration nor the Clinton administration was prepared to give a military commitment to Ukraine, nor did they believe the U.S. Senate would ratify an international treaty, so the memorandum was agreed as a political agreement.[17]"
So I'll repeat again - it's understandable what Russians are doing in Eastern Ukraine - they are helping their own, but what American troops are doing in Ukraine?
And the last but not least ( speaking of "Russia breaking memorandum") - when ( according to WIKI) "Russia accused Western governments of violating the pledge to respect the political independence of Ukraine by "financing a coup d'etat" that ousted President Viktor Yanukovich.[30][31]" should we say it's true or not?
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And I think "nationalism" is not primarily why Hitler was killing Jews.
That' what you "think." But what you "think" and what reality is/was is not necessarily one and the same thing. So since you like Wikipedia - better check the facts.
And you people are not.
You keep on believing in your "democratic scrutiny," while in fact living off the fruits of plunder and corruption, all while pretending to be righteous and dandy.
I think some in "leafy London" need to pull their heads out of you know where.
"A recent investigation by the Financial Times found that more than a hundred billion pounds’ worth of real estate in England and Wales is owned by offshore companies. London properties account for two-thirds of that amount. Charles Moore, a former editor of the Telegraph, says that London’s property market has become “a form of legalized international money laundering.”"
We've let far too many Russian oligarchs bring their dirty money and wash it in London. Unfortunately for them, Putin's assassins are rather effective on foreign soil so those who don't agree with him live in fear and trembling within their multi million pound Kensington mansions.
We're not perfect any means, but there is precisely nothing Russia can teach us about democracy, egalitarianism, human rights, transparency, justice. NOTHING.
And it looks like we'll be seeing you all in London for the 2018 world cup.
Vlad has to understand there are limits to what bribes and tanks can bring.
Re: 'We're not perfect any means, but there is precisely nothing Russia can teach us about democracy, egalitarianism, human rights, transparency, justice. NOTHING.'
There you go. Russia indeed does not make the world 'safe' for democracy. I would suggest 'irresponsibility' is the calling card.
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